The open world is absolutely pointless

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02/11/2018 14:46Posted by Martaan
At this point I miss my legendary weapons in Legion, which was brilliant compared to the Azerite shait.


This is where they have missed the mark. I would even go as far as to say that they have totally misunderstood the system they had in place with the Artifacts and what made it so appealing to the playerbase.

In Legion, when you gained Artifact power it never felt unimpactful despite the Artifact power on its own being rather benign and uninteresting. To put it simply, the Artifact power by itself isn't an exciting progression feature. This is incredibly important to understand and I don't think they do. I'm going to elaborate why.

When you are actively working towards traits that have a tangible affect on gameplay and noticeably impact the combat you engage in, it's this that provides the fulfilling sense of progression and this is precisely what Artifacts provided.

When you earned 100/200/X number of Artifact power - that wasn't the reward. The reward was edging closer to, and subsequently unlocking traits on your weapon that made you more powerful.

Now, while increasing your HoA level does of course give you more stats and subsequently provide very small incremental increases to your power, it's not impactful or rewarding because those miniscule stat increases do not change your interaction with the game in any sort of meaningful way. You are very unlikely to notice the incredibly marginal gains that you make every time you level up. This is an issue that has been exacerbated by mobs scaling, however I don't want to digress too much.

Compare that to Artifacts traits. When you levelled up, you acquired abilities that reduced cooldowns, abilities that empowered certain abilities, straight up new abilities - all features that provide an immediate and noticeable power progression. This is why Legion activities could get away with giving to AP as a reward and why it doesn't transpose well at all to BfA.

Now of course, I do acknowledge that when you had advanced your Artifact up to a certain point, marginal stat increases were the only progression left. However, this is why things like the Netherlight Crucible were added. Relics etc. There was more than one facet to this feeling of advancing your progress. Not to mention each class had multiple Artifacts.

Maxed out one? Start on the next one!

This kept it fresh for me. I had an alt of nearly everything, I played nearly every spec. For a casual player like myself combined with the class order hall quests, there was always something to do.

And we're not even beginning to factor in the myriad of cosmetic unlocks that each Artifact provided. Challenges that pushed you into content you might not have tried before. There was never a moment where I was sat there thinking:

"There's nothing to do"

What BfA has is effectively the same as if Legion had 1 Artifact weapon with an unchangeable scaling relic, no traits, no cosmetic appearances and the only use of Artifact power was the 'increased versatility' bonus you got at the very end of your progression.

And they wonder why players hate it? I mean at least if Legion had this system you could admire your Ashbringer, if nothing else. You can't even do that with a Necklace.....

They do not understand their own game.
Got nothing to add. You hit the nail on the head. I completely agree.

02/11/2018 15:42Posted by Zuljiren
02/11/2018 14:46Posted by Martaan
At this point I miss my legendary weapons in Legion, which was brilliant compared to the Azerite shait.


This is where they have missed the mark. I would even go as far as to say that they have totally misunderstood the system they had in place with the Artifacts and what made it so appealing to the playerbase.

In Legion, when you gained Artifact power it never felt unimpactful despite the Artifact power on its own being rather benign and uninteresting. To put it simply, the Artifact power by itself isn't an exciting progression feature. This is incredibly important to understand and I don't think they do. I'm going to elaborate why.

When you are actively working towards traits that have a tangible affect on gameplay and noticeably impact the combat you engage in, it's this that provides the fulfilling sense of progression and this is precisely what Artifacts provided.

When you earned 100/200/X number of Artifact power - that wasn't the reward. The reward was edging closer to, and subsequently unlocking traits on your weapon that made you more powerful.

Now, while increasing your HoA level does of course give you more stats and subsequently provide very small incremental increases to your power, it's not impactful or rewarding because those miniscule stat increases do not change your interaction with the game in any sort of meaningful way. You are very unlikely to notice the incredibly marginal gains that you make every time you level up. This is an issue that has been exacerbated by mobs scaling, however I don't want to digress too much.

Compare that to Artifacts traits. When you levelled up, you acquired abilities that reduced cooldowns, abilities that empowered certain abilities, straight up new abilities - all features that provide an immediate and noticeable power progression. This is why Legion activities could get away with giving to AP as a reward and why it doesn't transpose well at all to BfA.

Now of course, I do acknowledge that when you had advanced your Artifact up to a certain point, marginal stat increases were the only progression left. However, this is why things like the Netherlight Crucible were added. Relics etc. There was more than one facet to this feeling of advancing your progress. Not to mention each class had multiple Artifacts.

Maxed out one? Start on the next one!

This kept it fresh for me. I had an alt of nearly everything, I played nearly every spec. For a casual player like myself combined with the class order hall quests, there was always something to do.

And we're not even beginning to factor in the myriad of cosmetic unlocks that each Artifact provided. Challenges that pushed you into content you might not have tried before. There was never a moment where I was sat there thinking:

"There's nothing to do"

What BfA has is effectively the same as if Legion had 1 Artifact weapon with an unchangeable scaling relic, no traits, no cosmetic appearances and the only use of Artifact power was the 'increased versatility' bonus you got at the very end of your progression.

And they wonder why players hate it? I mean at least if Legion had this system you could admire your Ashbringer, if nothing else. You can't even do that with a Necklace.....

They do not understand their own game.


+1000000

Legion artifacts had lore, cosmetic appearances to hunt, interesting and impactful traits and there were several per class.

HoA has none of that. It's just a boring stat stick you,elves up to unlock gear with no secondary stats (lol), mostly generic and boring traits and no appearances to hunt as azerite gear shares model with other gear in the expansion.

Extremely disappointing.
The necklace is incredibly boring, plain, simplified. Compare it to all the variations they came up with in Legion, artifacts, mounts, sets and the ever hated legendaries. It's not to everyone's taste and seemed unfair, mages crying about their disc etc. I for one loved the creativity.

But this is what we get for always crying and wanting what someone else has got.
31/10/2018 12:28Posted by Zuljiren
31/10/2018 09:31Posted by Thograk
Dude, copy this thread into the US forums, then maybe, maybe the blues sees it. This is good stuff you (OP) brings up. The open world content is very important and is for everyone, both casuals and hardcore raiders. Its the core of an mmo and the heart of WoW.

/Peace


I don't have a US account but if anyone who does wants to link this post onto their forums, feel free!


It's not needed, they do read it.
02/11/2018 16:33Posted by Aerythlea

Yes, I do read those. I've also read through Zuljiren's rather lengthy post about world content and how it could be improved. More often than not, I'm usually reading the forums during my weekend even though that's outside of my work hours, just so on Monday morning I already have a head start on reporting and sentiment gathering for the week.

Quoted from the other topic.
They read everything, but don't expect them to join every single discussion.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I don't have a US account but if anyone who does wants to link this post onto their forums, feel free!


It's not needed, they do read it.
02/11/2018 16:33Posted by Aerythlea

Yes, I do read those. I've also read through Zuljiren's rather lengthy post about world content and how it could be improved. More often than not, I'm usually reading the forums during my weekend even though that's outside of my work hours, just so on Monday morning I already have a head start on reporting and sentiment gathering for the week.

Quoted from the other topic.
They read everything, but don't expect them to join every single discussion.


Well, it's reassuring to know that they do in fact look at constructive posts. I am honestly surprised that it sounds like they don't have a great deal of time to read the forums, based on Aerythlea's response.

Of course it would be nice to have some sort of engagement and discussion with a Blue but at least if they're aware that discussions like this are taking place, that's a step in the right direction.

The news of 'repeatable world content' in 8.2 caught my interest. It's a shame they didn't elaborate further but that's a very encouraging development.
I love how all people on this forums think that company with millions of subs have to discuss game personally with any player, get a grip your only vote is your sub and bug reports.90% of feedback is trash anyway so no wonder they spend little time to read this trash forum.
03/11/2018 19:49Posted by Mcslothy
I love how all people on this forums think that company with millions of subs have to discuss game personally with any player, get a grip your only vote is your sub and bug reports.90% of feedback is trash anyway so no wonder they spend little time to read this trash forum.


No

No one is saying they have to discuss anything. Their job is community engagement and I said quite clearly that it would be nice if we could have some dialogue with them.

That's not even remotely the same as an entitled demand.
03/11/2018 19:56Posted by Zuljiren
03/11/2018 19:49Posted by Mcslothy
I love how all people on this forums think that company with millions of subs have to discuss game personally with any player, get a grip your only vote is your sub and bug reports.90% of feedback is trash anyway so no wonder they spend little time to read this trash forum.


No

No one is saying they have to discuss anything. Their job is community engagement and I said quite clearly that it would be nice if we could have some dialogue with them.

That's not even remotely the same as an entitled demand.

But you do have a phone right?
It is a complete punch in the face to the world builders and art team to make all of the zones mostly irrelevant or utterly so as soon as a new patch arrives.

This 'bulldozer' attitude to old content needs to stop. No, it doesn't need to be the case that new content suddenly makes everything before it pointless.

It is astonishing that it still hasn't dawned on them why people so quickly burn through the new content, and then have nothing to do. Maybe you should make ALL of your World (of Warcraft) serve a purpose so players have a huge vast landscape to explore and do things in.

Just look at other MMOS if you want to see how it's possible to do that.

Put dynamic events in older zones. Crafting materials in specific areas. Daily hubs in lower level areas. PvP objectives that are actually rewarding. The ability to scale our level down so we can do stuff with lower players (button when travelling to old expansions to lower level to its cap-- say 80 in LK)
Reading all of this i cant help but think of the pre BFA Darkshore plane pvp period with both factions camping in the wild, large pvp battles and good times.

With the "***** slayer" title counting mechanic already working and all, what if a max stack of kills unlocked the chance of high level gear like the type you get from m+ from treasure chests or/and plane drops.

With how sharding works, getting that would be hard as one side got pissed eventually and steamrolled the other after they ganked loners for too long.

Would have to be some treasure hunt system to figure out where the ONE PLANE would appear every now and then as it would have to be really slow gains to not compete with the pve`rs.
So, somebody is reading the forums. That made me a bit happy.
I do not expect they will implement all the stuff people are ranting (high elves?) and hopefully not. But I hope, they will accept the general criticism and work on the quality.
I still hope some miracle will happen and I might buy the upcoming expansion. BfA is lost to me, my sub ends in 4 days and I won`t refresh that.
I agree to your first post aswell. Like my god. The zones are incredible beautiful. Each and on every single zone has so much detail in every house. There are rats in Drustvar on the food while everyone is frozen or the NPC's that genuily look like they got their own tasks and populate the world. Stormsong valley must be one of the most beautiful places ever in WoW. So much detail, so much love for each zone having different enviorement, assets and little stories all around the world where you can guess what happened there etc.

And then you see the quests and the overall design of content. It makes me cry as someone who has designed content and maps in the past. Guild Wars 2 has a super great design with their random events that everyone can participate in. No matter what level you are. You go there, "here, defend this place! Oh.. You didn't make it? Well enemies overun it now take it back!". As said in your post, it feels alive, organic and it just has a certain flow to it that I am missing in WoW. In WoW it makes no difference whatsoever if you complete a WQ or not.

Also the group of developers that came up with "you get war ressources and Azerite points" for killing mobs, doing WQ's and basically everything else needs to get fired so hard. The moment I realized I only get Azerite points and war ressources I stopped completely killing rares or anything. What's the point anyways? The zones look beautiful but the content is the laziest piece of !@#$ I have ever seen.

Give us gear, toys, mounts or even gold from rares and other WQ's. Have some variety. Furthermore add to that some REAL MEANING such as "if you don't defend this then it gets overrun by enemies" or something like that. Like seriously what is their content team doing? Did they fire them all and replace them with Activison suits that go like "we can copy this 60000 times, done"? What happened to the developers of Legion? Were they all fired? I would like them back please.
The focus of the game is totally on end game, nothing else matters these days. Rushing and grabbing everything you can along the way. The social aspect started to fade in Wrath, when we got the silent killing squad in dungeons. There is no longer any need to communicate, you can solo all the way to 120 raid without uttering a word to anyone.

I think giving the community a "silent killer"-mentality is one of Blizzards biggest mistakes.

I wonder what will happen when we get Classic and people that never played before Cata will see how much the social aspect and everyone being needed has faded. Will the community ask for "retail" to become more like it was in Vanilla?

When it comes to blue posts I wish we had more, but I can see they don't want to write here so much because they instantly get bullied. A downward spiral is created. The community is angry, the blues post even less, the community gets even angrier and so on to the point we have today.

There was a blue post recently about Darkmoon faire, someone wanted changes and was told to write a suggestion in game instead of here at the forum. Not sure what that means, if we are to interpret it as if Blizzard doesn't read and gather suggestions here. Would be a pity, specially when it comes to threads like this one. No way you can suggest this in game, there isn't enough space to write.
30/10/2018 13:09Posted by Chockø
They can easily implement alot of stuff to make the game better. Just can't be bothered to lol.


As long as the Raiding and PvP scene is doing ok, they genuinely don't give a toss about anything else.

The YouTube shills will continue defending them regardless so where is the incentive? They get away with doing the bare minimum because people just roll over and accept it.

You see it all the time on these forums too.

"Yeah well I'm having sooooooooo much fun"

It doesn't matter how legitimate or accurate your criticism is, you're guaranteed this sort of response in an attempt to shut down any sort of constructive discussion. It's almost as if people fail to comprehend that those who are critical often genuinely want the game to get better, as opposed to just mindlessly hating.


they do it because thats what most of wow playerbase want .

yes there is like 10 people here on forums and like 2 youtubers who whine about it constantly but milions absolutely love this game model.

so why should blizzard change anything.

also your theory is simply false . there are thousnads doin WQ in every zone including old legion zones (thousands still farm invasions in legion even today when i write this i met hundreds doin same as me - leveling alts there )
<span class="truncated">...</span>

No

No one is saying they have to discuss anything. Their job is community engagement and I said quite clearly that it would be nice if we could have some dialogue with them.

That's not even remotely the same as an entitled demand.

But you do have a phone right?


this meme is so stupid for anyone who have even remotely basic knowledge about this industry seeing how mobile games made as much $ as consoles and PC combined this year and in next 3 years will double this with amount of mobile games being released.

thats why their statement was justified - they just didnt expect how oblivious to facts people in panel were. and how many youtubers will decide to make easy cash on fake "rage" and sheeps agreeing with them .
My guess it's harder for dynamic content to be ported onto mobile. Mobile content doesn't do exploration very well. So it's not likely this will change considering WoWs current trajectory.
I wouldn't say the open world is pointless, that is an exaggeration

but I agree with all the points. Made in the topic.

Blizzard can do better.

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