Why Loot Trading is Dangerous (Straw Poll)

Classic Discussion
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10/11/2018 21:43Posted by Cai
10/11/2018 18:37Posted by Crustus
Oh really? So i can just assume you are a thief then? Must have been plenty of opportunity in your life.

clearly you have no clue what saying means, or you are even more cute naive person than i originally thought.

why do you think pirating is so largely "accepted" By so many, morally i mean, and not talking about you.

i can tell you why, because chances of getting caught are slim to none.
10/11/2018 18:37Posted by Crustus
And people who ask you to steal for them aren't your friends.

nope, it's called making a favor for friend and not giving a !@#$ about strangers, sorry, but for majority making favor for friend is a lot more important than upsetting some random guy.
I know exactly what the saying means though... it means you think its okay to steal every time you get the chance.

And besides that you say that your piracy is morally accepted because you won't get caught so easily.

I would laugh if it wasn't so bloody sad. :(

Oh and "making favor for friend" the way you do it is still bad. IRL a judge would put you behind bars ... along with your 'friends'.
10/11/2018 23:25Posted by Crustus
I know exactly what the saying means though... it means you think its okay to steal every time you get the chance.

except you don't, the saying means if there is certainty for people's mind that they won't get caught By anyone, that means most people will do what's generally considered "bad" if it greatly benefits them.

and no, i haven't had opportunities to steal in my life(except pirating, so yes i admit i have been a thief ;D), where i had certainty i won't get caught.
10/11/2018 23:25Posted by Crustus
And besides that you say that your piracy is morally accepted because you won't get caught so easily.

why you try to make this about you or me ? i'm talking about bigger masses.

it's more likely that someone thinks pirating to be morally okay, rather than it being stealing.
10/11/2018 23:25Posted by Crustus
I would laugh if it wasn't so bloody sad. :(

sorry that i burst your bubble, we live in society where police to exist is neccessary and laws just wouldn't work if they we're not enforced constantly, and if something is impossible to enforce, then it's impossible to be effectively a law, because there would be literally no one to follow that law.
10/11/2018 23:25Posted by Crustus
Oh and "making favor for friend" the way you do it is still bad. IRL a judge would put you behind bars ... along with your 'friends'.

and that's why they do it, there's no one to police the system, it's in hands of the players and that's why it's going to be abused, it's not even a question whatever it's going to be abused or not.
Cai:
sorry that i burst your bubble
There is no bubble to burst here.

You admit that you would willingly rob someone to enrich your 'friends'. And then you blame 'the system' like any common criminal ever because 'its easy because they will never get you'.

The only defense you raise is "because i can".

You have as much opportunity to do right by someone as you have stepping on them to lick yourself into favor with your 'friends'.
Pointless demagogy. Crustus, go play BfA and try to find your magical community there, if the people is what makes it and 'the system' doesn't matter.
11/11/2018 01:55Posted by Федя
Pointless demagogy. Crustus, go play BfA and try to find your magical community there, if the people is what makes it and 'the system' doesn't matter.


The dude is beyond reasoning, no point trying to have a discussion. Cai should just stop replying to him, he's not going anywhere.
POLL: https://www.strawpoll.me/16802918

My final point is that I'd honestly rather have zero loot transfer through GMs even for "accidental" needing than loot trading, let's bring back decision making and consequences to our beloved game.


Thats how i think. Please don't allow loot trading AT ALL.
11/11/2018 01:55Posted by Федя
Pointless demagogy. Crustus, go play BfA and try to find your magical community there, if the people is what makes it and 'the system' doesn't matter.
Stop with that childish 'go BfA' for a sec and try to use your noggin' instead for a change.

When i play with other people i do so in a polite, open and honest way. The common goal is to have fun together. You project that attitude on others and stimulate people to adapt and play the same. There is nothing magical about it, its just common decency.

If, on the other hand, you are constantly projecting mistrust, selfishness and general negativity then that is exactly what you get back. You reap what you sow.

Great communities don't magically fall from the heavens ... they are created by people, just like the toxic mess WoW is today has been made by people... not by magical systems.

Classic will not automatically spawn a great community. If anything, trolls will be chomping at the bit to prove the opposite. And the only way to fight toxicity and negativity is by beeing positive and show that you trust people, lead by example.

Again: there is nothing outlandish or magical about it. It all starts with your own behavior... not with a few tiny blue letters on an item.

But i guess you already have your plans laid out. What was it that you said earlier? You are going to form a gang and rob pug'ers? If so then stop beeing a hypocrite with your moaning over a loot trading system.
if ONE party member of a group disables loot trading, loot trading should be disabled. end of story.
11/11/2018 11:47Posted by Playmates
if ONE party member of a group disables loot trading, loot trading should be disabled. end of story.


This is what I kind of proposed in another thread this morning and it could work.

The group/raid leader has the option to "enable" loot trading and when he does, all party/raid members have to agree with it before it's actually enabled. If 1 person says no, then it stays disabled. Seems fine to me, if I'm missing possible ways this can be abused almost as the standard loot trading, tell me.
Loot trading should not be in the game.

Please blizzard don't put it in as it WILL be abused.
Keep classic authentic.
you seem to have forgotten the option where i don't care one way or another.
11/11/2018 11:00Posted by Crustus
When i play with other people i do so in a polite, open and honest way. The common goal is to have fun together. You project that attitude on others and stimulate people to adapt and play the same. There is nothing magical about it, its just common decency.

well i'm glad that i didn't burst your bubble afterall <3 you're too cute.
11/11/2018 11:00Posted by Crustus
they are created by people

aaawww, sooo cute.

good communities are created By rules. However, world of warcraft community is simply too big for community to create these rules, they have to be game mechanics and game that sets these rules, not players.
11/11/2018 11:00Posted by Crustus
Classic will not automatically spawn a great community.

it certainly won't, if they start to mess with social aspects of the game mechanics.

vanilla had great community because the game pushes players to that direction, game mechanics punishes players for being !@#$%^-s, and rewards good teamplay.

live version is perfect example of this vs classic.

in live version, you can get replacement for dungeon run or raid in a second with teleportation and LFG tool, so what happens in live version ? guy has wrong gear, makes 1 mistake, is new player, has to take a piss and afk for 1minute or ANYTHING and guy gets kicked out from dungeon instantly.

in classic, you can't get replacement easily, it's pain in the !@#, so what happens in dungeon when guy has wrong gear ? no one cares, what happens when someone mistakes ? no one cares for first 1-5 times, is new player ? GODSSAKE, people actually TEACHES the guy instead of kicking him.
11/11/2018 11:00Posted by Crustus
But i guess you already have your plans laid out. What was it that you said earlier? You are going to form a gang and rob pug'ers? If so then stop beeing a hypocrite with your moaning over a loot trading system.

i don't blame anyone doing something like that if blizzard is stupid enough to impliment loot trade, they are only following human nature.

my plans are however already set, there is no way i'm going to play with pugs, and if loot trade comes to play it only enforces my opinion to stay the hell away from pugs as far away as possible.
Crustus, if Loot Trading is in the game, I will guild up for any minor dungeon run and not join any pugs. I'm not gonna run the risk and I'm going to maximize my chances of getting loot. Does that make me a bad person? Wouldn't you do the same?

Essentially, the Classic WoW "community" will turn into the WotLK community where you basically knew your 25 guild members, and perhaps, the occasional pug that didn't matter.

Loot Trading discourages pugs. Pugs are necessary for a Classic WoW community to form, with about 2000 players concurrently.
12/11/2018 02:23Posted by Mailan
Wouldn't you do the same?
No, i will play Classic the way i remember Vanilla.

Not everything is about loot.
aaawww, sooo cute.
Its denigrating attitudes like yours that discourages people to be more open and honest.

You openly support plans to sabotage Classic community forming because they did something you don't like. Its akin to smashing your keyboard and screaming at your screen.

I will play Classic, join groups and the loot will drop how it drops.

I'm not ahsamed to say that i believe in setting a good example and will do so accordingly.
11/11/2018 20:17Posted by Cai
my plans are however already set, there is no way i'm going to play with pugs, and if loot trade comes to play it only enforces my opinion to stay the hell away from pugs as far away as possible.
And so you help creating the very thing you are afraid of.

Good luck with that.
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Crustus
11/11/2018 20:17Posted by Cai
my plans are however already set, there is no way i'm going to play with pugs, and if loot trade comes to play it only enforces my opinion to stay the hell away from pugs as far away as possible.
And so you help creating the very thing you are afraid of.

Good luck with that.


With that said, we can conclude that Loot Trading is not good for the game because we will abuse it. We are bad people, whatever, who cares.

It doesn't matter how it happens, it just needs to not be there, or at the very least have plenty of strict restrictions.
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Crustus
Its denigrating attitudes like yours that discourages people to be more open and honest.

You openly support plans to sabotage Classic community forming because they did something you don't like. Its akin to smashing your keyboard and screaming at your screen.


Don't bother with these thick skulled Alexensualdrones. There's no point in it.

They'll quit Classic after the first week and go back to their private servers anyway.

If it's not loot trading or sharding, they'll find something else to moan about. Just report them for trolling, that's what i've started doing :D
12/11/2018 18:43Posted by Keala
With that said, we can conclude that Loot Trading is not good for the game because we will abuse it. We are bad people, whatever, who cares.
I can also abuse my shoe by smashing someone in the face for an hour (or two). Does that mean shoes are bad? Should we sue the people that make shoes for giving them hard heels? .. #NOSHOES !!

gtfo.
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Crustus
Its denigrating attitudes like yours that discourages people to be more open and honest.

i thought i was being honest and open ?

not being honest would make me say everyone in classic and vanilla was awesome people, and the game design had nothing to do with that, and we can make abusable mechanics in classic because no one will abuse them.
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Crustus
You openly support plans to sabotage Classic community forming because they did something you don't like. Its akin to smashing your keyboard and screaming at your screen.

i don't support anything, i just said i don't start blaming human's being human, you however are ned flanders wiggling his finger at people who are just being theirself xD
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Crustus
I will play Classic, join groups and the loot will drop how it drops.I'm not ahsamed to say that i believe in setting a good example and will do so accordingly.

and when you realize everyone is just cheating theirway through and being toxic(in pugs), you come on forums wiggling your "moral" finger again at people "bad ! BAD, be good people, don't be baad!!" because it's "impossible" that game design has anything to do with community, there's just no chance that changes on game mechanics has anything to do with anything.
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Crustus
And so you help creating the very thing you are afraid of. Good luck with that.

yeah, i'm helping create thing i'm talking about By avoiding it, sure, i should be forced to join pugs and set a shining example like yourself, because "that" will help community a lot ;D
Intensîty:
I can exactly tell you what will happen when loot trading stays:

- BRD emperor run, you are after HoJ, group consists of warr tank/warr dps/rogue/healer X/You

So you are melee too and you are joining a group with 3 other melees? Boy, you sure pick the best of groups!
- 2 warrs + rogue are friends, 2 of these already have a HoJ but will purposely NOT equip it during the run

Well, you didn't care about them being friends when you joined the group did you? You even inspected the players and saw they didn't have HoJ! Of course they're going to roll for it!
- Your odds are 1:3, and you lost the roll

Seems fair, seeing you expected to have 1 chance in 4 when you joined the group.

- You were effectively scammed, but you don't know for sure and there is nothing you can do

Well, you weren't. You had 1 chance in 4 to get HoJ if it dropped. And nothing the other players did manipulated your chance of winning it.

Another case of a player making up a scenario of why loot sharing is bad and failing horribly.

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