Alliance getting a bigger bonus Blizzcon

Warmode and World PvP
According to Ion during the what's next panel he confirmed that they are trying to give a bonus to the underrepresented faction.

Wonder how much it is, because even 20% isnt that great if you have to ignore an azerite world quest for 1 hour because it is camped by horde
Ey, we don't need it, but I'll take it! :)
Here's a link for ya, to the relevant part of Blizzcon
https://youtu.be/_4PXd042fkk?t=429
The damage has already been done. Turned WM off on my alliance characters because either waiting to do one azerite wq takes an hour, and if you don't wait you get rekt by 10+ people the second you come out of stealth.
02/11/2018 23:49Posted by Vaëyn
Ey, we don't need it, but I'll take it! :)


Wow guess I was right, who knew?
The signs were clearly showing that there is no problem and blizz are happy with warmode!

Only an incompetent developer would ignore the problems that warmode created.
I'm glad that it will be getting a fix.
02/11/2018 23:44Posted by Râlph
According to Ion during the what's next panel he confirmed that they are trying to give a bonus to the underrepresented faction.

Wonder how much it is, because even 20% isnt that great if you have to ignore an azerite world quest for 1 hour because it is camped by horde


Alliance now will be even more pissed because they still wont use Warmode but now they gonna miss even 20%.
And it doesnt focus on the main problem - fraction imbalance.

Hell when you join the winning faction, you have no ennemys. thats how it is.

So make shards balanced and put all those chars of the more populated fraction in left-over shards with no ennemys and remove the 10%!

Period. It could be that easy.

But i guess they really fear the hate of those winning team joiners when they dont have free 10% anymore.
05/11/2018 12:42Posted by Trogar
So make shards balanced and put all those chars of the more populated fraction in left-over shards with no ennemys and remove the 10%


Well, apparently there are already leftover WM shards for excess faction pop. Link below is from July, I assume WM shards still work this way:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20766366541#post-2

For most WM shards, faction imbalance is just an effect of LFG + player distribution. Normally can be countered via LFG. Ion's take on the issue:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/321244461?t=01h10m48s

But removing the bonus completely for all War Mode shards could be the better solution. I doubt most WPvPers care about getting a bonus, it's for the PvEers. Would be hard to remove the bonus now that people are used to having it though. So that won't happen I guess.

Now that it's gonna happen, I don't have a problem with extra bonus for outnumbered faction. You can rationalize the extra. And it could encourage more Alliance to turn on War Mode. But if it's just greedy PvEers, does War Mode need more of them? Yes, both factions should have equal access to cannon fodder :)

I just wonder how the extra bonus will work. If it's not based on proximity, it wouldn't make sense. The extra should only kick in if >X number opposing faction are within X yards. Otherwise, If it's based on something like total zone or shard faction pop, you could get rewarded for being outnumbered somewhere other than your location. Free extra bonus for no inconvenience.

Well, I don't know how it will work, looking forward to finding out. I guess it will mostly advantage Alliance either way, so can't complain. Especially since, I assume we will have an icon warning us about faction imbalance in a particular area. Knowingly entering that imbalanced area with the extra bonus, means we accept the extra risk of inconvenience and the extra compensation - on top of the general WM risk compensation. No more complaints about faction imbalance! :)
02/11/2018 23:44Posted by Râlph
According to Ion during the what's next panel he confirmed that they are trying to give a bonus to the underrepresented faction.

Wonder how much it is, because even 20% isnt that great if you have to ignore an azerite world quest for 1 hour because it is camped by horde


This is wrong! One faction should not have extra advantage over the other just because a number of players decide not to participate in PvP that causes imbalance! Why don't they simply remove the bonus completely and why don't they give all the useful talents available only in WM on to disposition in normal mode so that we can use them in raids and dungeons? They should leave PvPers for themselves. This is really stupid.

EDIT: WM is good and let people who were on PvE to experience PvP and vice versa. People used to stay on PvP / PvE realms for many reasons, such as friendship etc.! Thanks to WM, situations are more flexible. It's great but the worst thing they did was introducing +bonus. Take it away!
They say they "try" to balance the shards. So basically when the "tries" fail 20% of the time, the underrepresented faction still is in a significant disadvantage.

But I agree that augmenting the bonus is not the way to go. Find better balancing of the fractions!

Last week-end I ended up counting 100 Hordes on an azerite kill 1 guy quest before the first Alliance Character came in.

That cant possibly be a balanced shard.
Even if you had precisely 50/50 faction balance in a shard, which for all we know is the ratio... you could have 39 Horde at a wq, and one Horde somewhere else. And 1 Alliance at that wq, and 39 somewhere else. That would look incredibly unbalanced to the 1 Alliance at the wq, but the shard is 50/50. Player distribution can cause imbalance, that's not an issue, it's a challenge. LFG also creates imbalance, and counters it too. Use LFG, that is what it's for.

Some WM shards are leftover shards for excess faction pop - I wonder if it's possible for one or two of the opposite faction to be placed on a leftover shard - just so the overpopulated faction on there at least sees one or two victims. Don't know. But normal WM shards are apparently pretty balanced, it's player distribution and LFG that imbalances them... both factions have same access to LFG.

The only way to guarantee 50/50 balance at a wq, would be to force phase players from other shards to keep the balance. Can you imagine how horrible that would be to get phased in/out just to keep the balance at a wq? No, we have battlegrounds if you want forced 50/50 balance, WPvP is not a battleground... it's random stuff happening, including the numbers of opponents. It's a multiplayer game, group up.
02/11/2018 23:44Posted by Râlph
According to Ion during the what's next panel he confirmed that they are trying to give a bonus to the underrepresented faction.

Wonder how much it is, because even 20% isnt that great if you have to ignore an azerite world quest for 1 hour because it is camped by horde

A bonus will never solve this problem. You'd think they've learned this from BG's...

Fix the root cause, faction imbalance, by fixing the things that cause it, like racial ability imbalance.
Take the bonus away, and reward for PvP activity to offset for progression.
Change the PvP talent system as I've explained before, or take them away or give them to everyone and let them work everywhere.
I don't see a problem with WM players getting something extra, bonus + talents. Extra rewards for PvP activity though, yes please. At the end of the day... turn on War Mode for extra talents and bonus = accept the risk of wq delays and sometimes things not going your way.

Imbalance doesn't matter, you will never have guaranteed balance at a wq for example... impossible without forced subzone balancing. Blizz already supplied the tools to counter any imbalance. The current War Mode system is working as intended. WM is about player control, Blizz want the players to decide what happens in the zones. Outnumbered? Group up. Player control. The extra bonus is just an incentive, not a "solution", because a solution is not required.

I personally don't feel the need to have any bonus, but I know WM PvEers appreciate it - and when the new extra bonus arrives, no more complaints needed about wqs taking longer because outnumbered. They could say "it's not enough!", but that would be kinda ungrateful, be glad to get anything at all, let alone extra.

Anyway, we don't know yet exactly how the extra bonus system will work, or what else Blizz are gonna do. But it will be really interesting to see how often Alliance get the extra bonus. If it's all the time... Alliance get an extra bonus they don't actually need, because LFG. Will depend how the extra bonus system works as well... proximity outnumbered... or zone outnumbered? That would make a huge difference to bonus fairness. I'm guessing it will not be shard outnumbered, since Blizz say the WM shards are more or less balanced.

It would be cool to have PvP activity rewarded more. But, if you go for a bounty every day, get an air drop, maybe win a bg, at least you get your gear item every week. That does feel kind of an overly linear reward system though. It would be funner if a PvP opponent had a random % chance to drop a gear item. That would be real nice. Blizz did mention other improvements, without giving details. We'll see.
I'm not much into WPvP but I agree Vaëyn. WPvP is kind of a player driven system and you should feel that you stomp the other side if you get more of your side to join the stomp. People complain about not being able to profit from the 10% while doing NOTHING for this. If you expect to turn on the mode for that "juicy" 10% but act like you play PvE, you are just greedy.
Ey, and in a future version (8.2?), we might get a bonus for controlling PvP towers! A PvP determined bonus system! See Blizz interview link below for details.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=288433.2/blizzcon-2018-mamytwink-battle-for-azeroth-interview-with-jeremy-feasel-and-tina

I'm not sure if it's definite. But more PvP orientated stuff should be great for WM. And could take the pressure off the wqs, so the PvEers can get their chores done more easily. The towers might give the controlling faction more bonus as well, nice. I think Blizz are hoping for big battles over these towers. I'm happy enough with WM as is, but more cool stuff being added is very welcome. Invasions sound cool too, good scope for WPvP :)
06/11/2018 13:35Posted by Vaëyn
Even if you had precisely 50/50 faction balance in a shard, which for all we know is the ratio... you could have 39 Horde at a wq, and one Horde somewhere else. And 1 Alliance at that wq, and 39 somewhere else. That would look incredibly unbalanced to the 1 Alliance at the wq, but the shard is 50/50. Player distribution can cause imbalance, that's not an issue, it's a challenge. LFG also creates imbalance, and counters it too. Use LFG, that is what it's for.

Some WM shards are leftover shards for excess faction pop - I wonder if it's possible for one or two of the opposite faction to be placed on a leftover shard - just so the overpopulated faction on there at least sees one or two victims. Don't know. But normal WM shards are apparently pretty balanced, it's player distribution and LFG that imbalances them... both factions have same access to LFG.

The only way to guarantee 50/50 balance at a wq, would be to force phase players from other shards to keep the balance. Can you imagine how horrible that would be to get phased in/out just to keep the balance at a wq? No, we have battlegrounds if you want forced 50/50 balance, WPvP is not a battleground... it's random stuff happening, including the numbers of opponents. It's a multiplayer game, group up.


I did some azerite quests on my hunter. Since the queue of horde players was endless I looked into lfg. In Drustvar there were two groups, both mount farmers.
In Vol'dun there were two groups, mount farmers. Monk that invited me informed me it was wm off group.
It was pure luck I got the emissary done.

So just stop it. That explanation of shards being balanced bla bla is just utter horse !@#$ from them. It's so unbalanced now that not even lfg does anything.
09/11/2018 00:27Posted by Cróws
So just stop it. That explanation of shards being balanced bla bla is just utter horse !@#$ from them. It's so unbalanced now that not even lfg does anything.

Do yourself a favor and don't try to explain anything to Vaëyn. He is either a troll or daft.
The only time I got on a shard without barely any Horde (like how most shards are only in reverse) was 2 days ago. Only finding 3 low level hordies, turns out an Alliance raid was camping flight points... This wasn't fun 1-shotting Horde 7 times to get my weekly quest. Fast and efficient but not fun. It felt bad to be forced to kill defenseless 112, 117 and 116 players. Everybody in WM gain pleasure if they properly balance the shards and disallow raids.
Thanks for putting me down when I'm trying to help. Many don't think to use LFG, or don't use it effectively, or don't consider the importance of the group title. I'm at best an average WPvPer - but over time when forming groups, I've found certain things work better than others.

For those that want to try, this might help with LFG groups for wqs...

I generally never join an existing group unless it's via our WPvP community. The LFG list contains groups for whatever random players happen to be doing at that moment, you are not guaranteed to find a suitable group. If you take a chance, you are at the mercy of that group's goals.

Creating your own group is usually the quicker and easier way to go.

If you are worried about being group leader, it's actually not hard...

1. Have a plan and tell group members the plan: for example, visit each wq in the zone. When a wq is done, tell them which one next.

2. Keep members focused on your goals: if a member doesn't listen, it's best to just remove them and relist in LFG.

What you name your group is really important. I find the quickest way to form a stable group is to give it a general name designed to attract WPvPers. For example, "Zonename WPvP".

WPvPers are generally happy to either be killing Horde, or actively looking for Horde. Sitting doing nothing is the issue. Get your wq done quick, then move on to the next wq after the enemy are dealt with. Remember, War Mode is for WPvP first, that's why it's on.

With a five member party, you might still be outnumbered at certain wqs. If it's a problem, temporarily convert your party to a raid and change your group title to "Zonename WPvP Raid". Gather members, eliminate the enemy, then kick members back down to the original party members.

You can solo WM, but WoW is a multiplayer game. Will LFG always work out? Of course not. Have realistic expectations

Here are some more solutions...
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624092387#post-1

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