Future of WoW - Long Suggestion collection

General
Hello!
I'll just pust my two stones here, I hope it gets read by some.

I think we have to go back to WoD. It was the expansion most would consider the worst, and the numbers show this too. In fact, it was the only expansion I spent mostly inactive and I play since 2005.

And by returning to WoD I mean the Garrison system.
In all, WoD is pretty. The dungeons and raids are fun and cool. There isn't too much of them of course, but the Garrison itself is vast. So if it were good, then the expansion would have been way more successful, right?
And ever since then the Garrison system shrunk a lot, barely existing now in BFA.
But I don't think that's necessarily the good course of action. If a system doesn't work properly, is outdated, you either fix it or replace it with a new system that solves the issues but fulfills the original purpose.

So, I think the main reason it had failed is that you are named Commander of the expeditionary forces in WoD, the leader of your class in Legion and an elite forces commander in BfA. But you are in fact, none of those things. You are just a variant of a Yes Man, I call it Click Man. There is little strategy or tactics involved in garrisons, not a lot of decision making, missions are not inter-connected and you can't gain too much or lose too much. And now the same problems may surface with expeditions and warfronts. Without these systems being connected to each other and/or the main campaign, without them offering some good challange, they are just simple scenarios or facebook level games. And both of those, even if initially fun, get old fast.

What I would suggest is to make garrisons and the such more interactive, have the player actually play them out and connect them together and to other systems in the game.

I understand that my post may not be very clear and I'm sorry for it, so let me try to elaborate with an example. The meantime I mention some other issues I have.

In BfA, our characters are varied generations of adventurers. ON top being the veterans, like the Scarab Lord or Hands of A'daal (they were recognized in WotLK by NPCs so that's why I mention them) and on the "bottom" there are the fresh-faced adventurers and soldiers of the allied races that just joined.

Regardless of experience and power, all players have two main goals this expansion: Keep the world together and heal Azeroth AND defeat/deal with the other faction. These two goals are the main motivation of our characters.

What I think is that the garrison should provide a field for a turn based strategy game where you play against the computer to reach certain goals. Your main resources to use would be the War Resources and Azerite. Azerite is very important to keeping the world together and therefore it would be the "rare" resource you need to manage. Of course you would need to think of rewards or more story scenarios or quests so you get something from continously playing this campaign, but let's say you go to the Garrison panel. You could see bunch of objectives or other objects on the map. Let's say you want to capture a fort in Zuldazar. It wouldn't be just "pick 3 whatever, press send."
Well, you could try that, but the success chance would be extremely low. And if you fail, in the next turn, the opposing faction may push you out of a bunch of good world quests or resource nodes or whatever.
HOWEVER. You could have a strategy. Maybe you first capture points around it. Maybe you send out your guys to construct a foward camp. And in the next turn you would get new options to choose from, which you may anticipated. And you may even get world quests too. For instance you put the garrison out to build a foward camp. But then the enemy sends saboteurs, and it's a world quest to find them and deal with them. If you do that, you get some more options or rewards.
And your enemy may construct their own camp you have to consider sending your men to deal with. Or you could use azerite to empower the equipment of your troops and take the tower now. But that requires lots of Azerite, so you need to go for an expedition. But then you may not have enough to progress with Magni and those should have consequences too.
So forth and so on.

Did I made my post unreadable again? My bad if I did.
But I just think that if a theme park MMO is anything like a theme park, then same rules apply. Any attraction may be fun and awesome for the first time, but probably gets boring at the third. You gotta do something so that parts of the game aren't just bland attractions prepackaged and precooked for consumption.
A game needs to be a game. Chess can be fun for the hundreth time, because of your opponent and not despite.
19/10/2018 17:36Posted by Slugtrail
19/10/2018 13:15Posted by Azibeth
Why use the first paragraph to throw around insults?


Its only insulting if it applies to you.


And that's where you're wrong.
But yeah, a lot of people won't get that because they lost (or were never taught) their sense of apathy. They are unable to think how someone else might feel or what they might think about something. All they think about now is me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me me.
Me.

Anyway back on topic: Most of OP's ideas are bad.
See my earlier post on page 1 for the reasons why.
21/10/2018 13:49Posted by Limrasson
And by returning to WoD I mean the Garrison system.

Hmm...
It would take me a while, but I had my critic abou garrison too.

The base idea was amazing the implementation was horrible.
The garrison itself was not the problem.
The problem was that it disconnected players from the wold. Everone just sat in their base, and didnt even went to the outdoor.
Because it was more benefitial to play the game as farmwille, than it was intented.

I try to summarise my idea with player housing and accountwide features:
One thing with player housing it should be a quality of life improvement, but witha cost.
Such a luxury should cost money (ingame currency or items). Garrison generated money. It was like giving every player an oil rig.

What I would do with player housing:
1. Maintainance cost:
If you want your house in wow, you should pay rent. A lot.

But it needs to have features in exchange.
Having a bed should give more resting bonus (on max lvl it could be an extra 10% reward from anything - more stuff from wq, more gathered stuff from farming... etc)

You could have each room but it would increase the maintainance.
Yes... you could have your herbgarden, but if you dont maintain it, the "rent cost" would devour your wallet.

Another extra feature that I wouldnt make the garrison/house/hall a goldmine.
I would make it more of a half automatic system.
Yes... you can have a workshop, and you could hire NPC-sthat would craft you items for a fortune ofc.
So lets say, you farm herbs, and you hire an alchemist that crafts you flasks or potions.

So again... garrison already had this mechanic.
What I would change that you could "hire" legendary companions. Or call it whatever you want. The point would be, that instead of an npc, it could be YOUR alt, with its skill.
Example:
you can have an npc goblin who can make a flask with rank2 skill. Cost is 100k gold / day. And if you give it all the materials, it will make you flask.
An alchemist with rank3 would cost 5k/day. (to avoid exploit, minimum hiring period is 1 week, and you NEED to have the room, so for example if you want to demolish your alchemy station for a blacksmith anvil to hire an npc... clearly we do not want to make the system exploitable...)
Or instead of hiring an npc, lets say, you need to put money to increase the bedroom of yours. An extra bedroom costs a fortune.
But in that case you dont need to hire an npc, you can just "invite" your alt, with its own skillset.

here the mechanic could be, while you are not playing with your alt, he/she would go "home" and do work orders.

Again... the whole point is that a garrison or housing should be a quality of life improvement.
In WoD it failed, because it was like an active goldmaking cheatcode.

if you are a game designer and want people to go outdoor or raidin, don't put a garrison system, that is soo rewarding that ruins the rest of the game.
I've seen videos, that stepping outside garrison was the most ineffective way to play the game.

And in an MMORPG where open world and socialising and hanging out with friends should be the main thing...
Is outrageous.

So it wasnt the garrison that failed, it was the reward that it gave...
Higher difficulty should be more rewarding.

Garrison is a perfect paralell of the titanforing system.
In WoD people just sat in their garrison instead of goind outdoor and farm.
In legion it was more benefitial to farm lower difficulty instead of mythic raiding, since steamrolling a target dummy for a 0.0000008% luckforge item with extra slot, and best stat is easier, than making a wipefest marathon.

We couldnt recruit players to do mythic raiding, because most players told it clearly:
Why should I learn the whole stupid tactic and wipe hundreds of time for a 960 item, when all I need to do is link curve, faceroll the boss, and maybe I get a higher reward in a 40 minute raid, and... we saw the screenshots of insane ilvl procs.
19/10/2018 18:27Posted by Kraivanah

Tahra took time quoting the whole opening post in pieces and just repeating that I'm selfish.


No that's not what I said.
I said that your solutions are egocentric.
That you have to look at the bigger picture because there's lots of different kinds of players in WoW. And for instance, drastically changing something like the open world, a place where everyone in the game is supposed to be able to go freely, takes careful thought.

19/10/2018 18:27Posted by Kraivanah

The other side of this double edged sword:
Why the community want to force me, that the way to play wow is to gear up a character, farm mythic dungeon, and if I'm bored I should just reroll to do the same thing with a different skinset?


The keyword to solutions for things like that is: options.
Like I said in my first reply; some of your ideas could be very good, but as an optional feature. Not something that's baseline.


The contribution for war preparation should be global, and this is exactly one of the reason, so pvp haters can just have fun on the bambi servers, and gather weeds.


There you go again with the passive aggressive insulting.
There's no need for that.

19/10/2018 18:27Posted by Kraivanah

Btw... I play with warmode on, lvled up with it, and still turned on. And it isnt a bloodgore massacre corpsegank fest as most people think. I think I had a fight less than 5 times.
Most time it is as it was usually on a pvp server.


Well that's great for you. Glad you're happy. But I don't want another player to mess with my gaming experience. I hate it. So warmode is off. Always.
I turned it on once to farm conquest because of RNG I wasn't getting any weapon upgrade, so I went for the conquest weapon reward. I did it. I hated it.

19/10/2018 18:27Posted by Kraivanah

Harder outdoor content
Well... I totally agree when people say, giving more hp to a npc is not difficult increase, however there are a few exception, when its an endurance test (who else had 1.5 hour dance with Heigan in Naxx?)

A harder outdoor could be:
- npc-s calling for help (is it still on? I remember in tbc leveling that I had to cc npc/s before they get backup)
- using spells more frequently
- distrupt and play with the player. We dont need skynet integrated to wow ai, but they could do some fake casting, or other smart moves.
There are rouge class npc-s, but I don't even know what the AI is, because even if they're "invisible" you can see them in 20 yrds or smth, and they once the combat is on, it is just another npc tries to autoattack you to death...
No sap? No ambush while his/her fellow is attacked by us?

The outdoor difficulty is "pull the world, spam aoe..."

Npc-s ai currently nothing more, than target players, and autoattack /spamcast untill one of them dies.
Even if they try to do interruption its a long cast, or long transition.

Yeah... it is unsatisfyng when the enemy is a brick wall, and you weapon is a toothpick... Thats not challange...


The issue is that that is YOUR experience with the outdoor world.
For many other players that is NOT their experience and making the world harder would drive those players away.

Since you like talking about yourself, let me give you some insight on me:
If I was forced to do dungeons, or even worse; raids, before I could comfortably traverse the outdoor world without dying over and over, I would quit. I would quit and never come back until it was changed.

19/10/2018 18:27Posted by Kraivanah

Currently in WoW the biggest challange is the playerbase. Do you think even mythic raiding is hard?
Getting world first kill is hard.
After that the players are just copying the tactic that the top 3-5 guild used.


You just don't get it. The majority of players don't want it to be hard.
They are NOT like you! I'm not saying they want stuff for free (yeah I'm sure there are those kinds of players too), but doing some work for it and being challenged is something totally different than banging your head against a wall for weeks hoping it will make a dent.

That type of gameplay is only liked by a minority. So that's how that type of content should be treated; made for a minority.
It should not be baseline. Ever.
21/10/2018 14:37Posted by Kraivanah

I try to summarise my idea with player housing and accountwide features:
One thing with player housing it should be a quality of life improvement, but witha cost.


First of all I didn't quote your whole post because it was quite long, but I will react to the entirety of it and not just the quoted part.

Totally disagree with you there.
Housing should be evergreen content. Based on your characters achievements, but only cosmetic. Besides giving rested bonus, having a cooking fire and such things it should not generate any gold, it should not give you any bonuses (least of all bonuses that influence combat) and it should be accessible to everyone.

It's very clear we look at WoW, and probably gaming in general in totally different ways:

I want to be entertained. I want to have fun. I want to relax. I love stories, immersion, atmosphere. I don't want things to be too difficult. If it is, I get annoyed and I will probably not play anymore. In an mmorpg like WoW, thankfully, I get to choose what kind of content I want to do.

You sound like you want to be challenged from the moment you log in to the moment you log off. You almost sound like you would want to be punched in the face just for having the nerve to log off; GET BACK TO THE GAME! (correct me if my assumption is wrong).

Again, it's fine that you like that type of gaming. But you cannot have a system in the game, meant to be enjoyed by everyone, and turn it into some hardcore grinding exercise where only the best of the best could have a house.

Sure there would be differences between player's houses; someone who only casually plays wouldn't have many trophies to show off in his or her house for instance while the hardcore raider type would have many of such things he or she could proudly display.

Someone who has done certain content might have unlocked a new type of house you could now own. Or a new style. Etc. All of this to stroke that ego if you so wish.

But the basis of it should be; attainable for all.
Because, like it or not, WoW is not made for you. It's made for a broad audience of different kinds of gamers.
21/10/2018 15:03Posted by Tahra
You sound like you want to be challenged from the moment you log in to the moment you log off. You almost sound like you would want to be punched in the face just for having the nerve to log off; GET BACK TO THE GAME! (correct me if my assumption is wrong).

I like to play rougelite games.
It doesnt mean I want to be every games become like "I wanna be the guy"

I love when a game does what a game used to do:
teach, educate a player.
Sharpen reflexes, lecture them.

A good game makes you better person irl and the player doesnt even realising it because theyre having fun in the process.

You know, we talk about grinding, when people repeat something that is not fun.
I would like to see a rich connected itembase, where the world is connected.

Make proffessions useful again.
Currently as usual enchanting and alchemy worth something.
This resulted an AH where anything else is so useless, that there is a massive overproduction in this thing.
In the meantime there are tons of fun things, but... the world is so undertuned, that it is a waste of time and material.
Tailoring for example:
Battle flags. Ok... nice... Good def cooldown, raidwide buffs... oh... wait...
Not usable in raids, dungeons and battlegrounds...
So whats the point?
Open world you can pull the half map even as a dps, and just burn anything down.
Wpvp... yeah... ok... theoriticly usefull, techniquely nobody will ever burn materials for this stuff after you lvl-ed up tailor.

item slot upgrading:
Current game:
Enchant ring, Weapon,

head - reputation currently nothing
neck - enchanter currently nothing
Shoulder - inscriber, reputaion, leatherworker currently nothing
Back - Enchant, Tailor, Engi currently nothing
Chest - LW, Enchant currently nothing
Wrist: Enchant, LW, BScurrently nothing
Hands - LW, Ench, Engi, BScurrently nothing
Waist - BS, Engicurrently nothing
Legs - LW, Tailorcurrently nothing
Feet - LW, Enchacurrently nothing
Shields - Encha, BScurrently nothing
Ring - encha
Off hand - enchacurrently nothing
Weapon - Encha, BS[
Ranged - engicurrently nothing

So in BFA your item preparation is:
enchant ring,
enchant weapon,
buy stack of food (or cooking is available for everyone)
a few flask
and maybe battle potion IF you are hardcore player or mythic raider

IF you are lucky, you might need a Jewel into your slot.
And MAYBE a mythic progress guild will request to use Vantus runes

Whats the point of having a proffession?
Ok... alchemyst and herbalist are doing well...

But you say if Im asking to make the proffession usefull Im a no-lifer hardcore wannabe neckbeard?

is there even any point to trying to explain you the wow economic crisis?
That there is absolute zero point to put any effort to any proffession because
a) they are worthless, and waste of ingredient. Most of the time it worths more to sell it to the npc
b) after tons of grinding the high lvl crafting makes a ilvl300 item?
Or if you farmed a tons of material from heroic raid (that drops 370 ilvl) you will be able to craft a BoP 355 ilvl item?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
c) or the only usefull consumable proffession is alchemy but it the overproduction is so brutal, that the market is set up by players that it only worth doing it if you have brutal lucky procs.

21/10/2018 15:03Posted by Tahra
Housing should be evergreen content. Based on your characters achievements, but only cosmetic.

I counter disagree.
If there's absolute no benefit of it, than its a waste of time.
For showing off, you can:
- link achievement, feast of strenght are the absolute /flex
- unique colored mount that can be farmed in mythic endboss
- fancy follower pet or toy, but I am so not bothered with thois collection tab, that I cant even name anything

Cosmetic sets are pointless. Most player will use the same transmog. I am the absolute hipster by not using hairdresser and enchanter.

And my favorite topic:
What is the point of gold in the game?
There are no goldsinks in the game. Each expension a new currency is introduced.
If you play the game hypercasually you have more than enough gold to buy a raid consumable and enchants.
But you need to be really dedicated to farm wow token.

Unless you have sh*tload of gold, because in that case you just play stockmarketeer next to the AH.
Which goes back to another problem: why bothering to go to the outdoor content?

In the meantime, all my suggestions would be an option. If you dont want to spend money for an automatic npc abnd playing factorio in wow, than just log off, relog your other char, and do what you want.

And please dont even bother to come with the black market, becaue again...
that 2M gold spidermount does NOTHING more than the Green Wyvern from TBC.

My "metawarfont" system only give purpose for those who like one thing in the game.
But seems you believe I want to see a game, where you need to have 12 alts, with all maxed out proffession, and play the wow multiboxing.
This is EXACTLY that i dont want, because currently if I even DARE to say, that the game cannot offer anything apart from logging into the weekly raid lockout, than most common answer from players is to
make an alt...
And the main feature of BFA is to level up a Zandalar troll?!
I love my current troll. So if I dont want to reroll any allied race can I get a refund?
Ofc no...

But dont you thoink the game isnt to good, if I am wasting my subscibtion time writing in this topic, and you telling me, that I am wrong writing this topic?

I love when a game does what a game used to do:
teach, educate a player.
Sharpen reflexes, lecture them.


Well, that's not why I play games.
I want to have fun first and foremost. I want to be entertained.


So in BFA your item preparation is:
enchant ring,
enchant weapon,
buy stack of food (or cooking is available for everyone)
a few flask
and maybe battle potion IF you are hardcore player or mythic raider

IF you are lucky, you might need a Jewel into your slot.
And MAYBE a mythic progress guild will request to use Vantus runes

Whats the point of having a proffession?


I agree most professions are useless. My main has always had engineering, but it's just not fun to do anymore. The recipes are too expensive (material wise) for what they actually do. Most of the engineering usables should be toys imo.

But as for your 'preparation' list; again, that's from your viewpoint.
I don't do half that list.

21/10/2018 19:18Posted by Kraivanah

21/10/2018 15:03Posted by Tahra
Housing should be evergreen content. Based on your characters achievements, but only cosmetic.

I counter disagree.
If there's absolute no benefit of it, than its a waste of time.


The whole game is a waste of time. The whole idea behind a game is a waste of time that gives you enjoyment.
So that's what I mean with housing; it should be content that will stay relevant in every expansion; it should be attainable for everyone in the game; it shouldn't give buffs and such because min-maxers will 1) abuse it and 2) feel obligated to participate in the system even if they don't really want to.

Such a system should be for the people who enjoy being creative. Who like to decorate their ingame homes with stuff they've earned or unlocked through playing the game.
People who might enjoy inviting friends or guildies (or even strangers) over into their home to show off their accomplishments.

21/10/2018 19:18Posted by Kraivanah

Cosmetic sets are pointless. Most player will use the same transmog. I am the absolute hipster by not using hairdresser and enchanter.


And that's your choice, but MANY MANY MANY players DO enjoy cosmetic features and welcome them with open arms. Again; you are only seeing things through your own eyes. Broaden your mind.

You claim you like it when a game makes you a better person irl; well, here's your chance. Stop being narrowminded and open yourself up to how other people enjoy the game. You're not wrong for enjoying the game the way you do, but you cannot force others to play it your way, when they clearly like different things than you.

21/10/2018 19:18Posted by Kraivanah
But dont you thoink the game isnt to good, if I am wasting my subscibtion time writing in this topic, and you telling me, that I am wrong writing this topic?


You're not wrong. But like I said before; you can't expect core features of the game to be changed to suit only your gaming style.

Options are good.
Being forced isn't.
22/10/2018 12:24Posted by Tahra
Well, that's not why I play games.
I want to have fun first and foremost. I want to be entertained.

A good game educates you without realising it.

Starcraft is one of the hardest competetive game.
Heartstone looks easy, yet if you want to build a competitive deck and go higher rank, what you do is actually practicing
- resource management
- short and long investment
- probability theory
So do you plan to uninstall HS now?

WoW was about teamwork, social cooperation, maybe market management, economy.
Yeah... I miss the time when a proffesion was able to give the best item in the game, but getting the material was either amazing teamwork or market.
In Lineage the game was about organising parties and raids to gear up the next member of the guild, so we can progress to the next tier.

WoW doesnt have this anymore.
Players actually abandon guilds, because "hurdurr imah mthic guild, we need big epeen ppl. no scrubs under 370"
So what happens, as soon as a player get enough ilvl, instantly leave guild.
The only thing is missing now a "so long n00b" farewell message.

And the current system promote this:
Personal loot ftw.

Even inscriber has good stuff.
But I would give the stat bonus of each buff more than the original.
Currently Inscription scroll gives 7%, while player buff 10.

I know players would rage instantly to change scroll 15%.
Currently nobody uses scroll. They Just invites the player who gives the needed buff. (yipp... it is FUN to be a warlock that only gives a CR that a druid or DK can give too...)

Its not like that buff wins the game.

The reason I want to be outdoor more lively, because there is no purpose to really go outdoor.
In TBC and even WotLK when there was no raid, I was farming outdoor to supply the guild, and after it, the AH with flasks, potions. When I had enough money, I just dropped herba, and purchased herbs from the AH and crafted only.
But in TBC and LK you had to specialise on the luckcrafting. You were either a potion master, a flask master or a transmuter. Reroll costed 500g.

Legion:
congrat... you won the rank3 lottery!
I dropped proffession completely, because unless you had rank3, and at least an avg +4 proc, doing the proffession was a waste of effort.
Since legion (maybe before that, but I skipped 2 expension) the market of trading and fullfilling supply and demand changed into...
A stockmarket?

Currently the nearly only way to make gold is to purchace "stocks" aka tradables ona low price and sell it on high price.

I LK I tried to Supply the servers demand. So if there wasnt any raid, I crafted.
In Legion even that was a waste of time, since each guild has at least ONE player who sits on constant goldcap, that he or she just purchase feasts and cauldron. Sometime they ask for a key ingredient as a compensation.

And this is wrong!
Make cauldron worse at least than the individual food buff.
Whats the point again for having so many food, when the best food is a raidfeast that gives the best stat?

So how the WoW been degrated in time?
Currently the game is for me as a raider:
- Do raid lockout.
- push my own key as high as possible
- Do emisseries. (as soon as I reach exalted, I wouldnt bother with that either)

When I started in TBC the game was all these (emisseries were dailyQ ofc)
+ farming outdoor
+ crafting
+ gearing guild mates, because without crossrealm, we cared about each other
+ teaching guild mates to play the game... Yeah... went to HC dungeons with lowbies, because that time even if you overgeared the dungeon it ment, you didnt had to refresh CC. Now everything us: pull all, spam aoe, votekick the slowpoke)
+ did attunement key catchups.

And most pvp-ers said open world pvp was more about not allowing the enemy faction to gear up, since no materials, no best loot that could be done with proffessions only. And there was no pve and pvp gear back than. So in bg-s gear mattered. Now it doesnt.

And that's your choice, but MANY MANY MANY players DO enjoy cosmetic features and welcome them with open arms.

So where does my system forces you to turn warmode on?
Where does my system forces you to contribute and farm out all proffession?
Nowhere.

It only gives them a purpose.
I never asked to remove cosmetic stuff from the game.
I only said it doesn't motivates me.

My suggestion is connect the features. In fact, in a perfect way, the best would be to balance each feature so much out, that it could be an endgame content even on its own, but still fuels the other features.

Currently what is the warfront?
A small easy idling, where you get a 370 loot/week, and 340 for repeatable runs.
Ok... Even lfr gives you 340. So once a week you get a free hc raid tier loot.
And even hc raid is a catch up for mythic raid, that only 2% of the playerbase steps into.

Once the next raid tier comes in N-O-B-O-D-Y will go the Stormgarde scenerio.
It will become the bfa withered army. Once you finished it, it will be over. Than you can QQ on the forum that if nobody qeueu there, how can you get your precious cosmetic rng stuff?

Instead I would like to give options, different path:
Ok... you want to controll the zone, so you can get better farming outdoor.
Even controlling the zone would mean, that faction npc-s would patrol the area. (only to spice things up)
Since the gatherable stuff contributes strenghten npc-s in the warfront scenarios, even as a proffession focused player you want to craft stuff, so your faction can contribute more.
In the meantime pvp-ers want to gank the farmers, and other pvp-ers want to gank the other pvp-er.
Hate pvp: dont turn warmode on, and you can have fun with the predictable npc patrols.
All this, because the warfront unlocks maybe special vendors or key materials, that can gear up people who want to raid.
So when players finish raid, some loot from each instance could be an epic lvl contribution that points back to the metawarfront point.
PvP-ers can have their own version ofc:
arena and battleground wins, honors, or whatever else they get could do some same other contributions.

Dunno... how about elite warmongers mercenary that fuels the warfront again.
With some AI writing, an NPC who hunts other faction players open world. So yeah... a raidboss to hire. :D

The point is to give a purpose and connect them.
This is why I said outdoor should be the true endgame content. Thats promote socialising, and increasing the fun factor.
Currently outdoor is nothing more than a fancy lobby for a bunch of minigames.

Currently pvp is nothing more:
"imah gonna bash yer he'' in swear'n me mums life, because your heeltbar is red"

The only reason you feel it is not fun, and too educating, because I am highlighting the clockwork sytem behind it.

I think this is the way of consturctive criticism and suggestion.
But you can join the other forum of "fixitoriunsub"

So you want brainless hacknslash?
Theres diablo 1-2-3 already.
Why turning World of Warcraft to a diablo?
And thats what happened. Its not even a secret the Diablo3 developers worked on Legion. In diablo, where you just bash yourself trough the enemy without thinking the rng is fun. Thats what keeps you playing (i dropped D3 as soon paragon lvl was introduced... for me that turned the fun into grinding)
In the WoW were grinding best legendary supposed to be the game is NOT fun.
Where an LFR afk sleep rng titanforge proc rewrds you a better loot than the mythic epic fight... that is NOT fun.

Cosmetic stuff entertained me 15 years ago.
And my supreme point of the metawarfront and sandbox style-ish system, tat even players who take a break in the game... when they come back, they could still pick up.
Since a new warfront would be a new zone to dominate (that's why I suggested the zone bonuses)
Do you think I will EVER see deathwing in its prime? Hell-no.
Unless there is another "projectxx" guild somewhere, but since the game mechanics changed, it wont be the same again.
In tbc crowd controll was the main challange.
In wotlk for healers mana controll was a challange.
Now... do dancedanceevolution to make maximum dps/hps.
18/10/2018 23:29Posted by Kraivanah
I actually love the azerite system. My serious issue is the old boring carrot on a stick that some developers think it is fun to grind.

Carrot on a Stick isn't the issue, the grind is.
18/10/2018 23:29Posted by Kraivanah
Suggestion

18/10/2018 23:29Posted by Kraivanah
Make the ring unlocking the other way around. Instead of starting outside with the boost than grinding for a lousy +5ilvl it should be the other way around.

So make the Carrot more difficult to get by making the grind longer is your suggestion?
Carrot on a Stick isn't the issue, the grind is.

Grinding isn't the issue, the purposeless one is.

We talk about grinding when the fun factor drops so much, you start questioning: "why am I doing this exactly...?"

Legions AP farm:
you literraly had to beat thousands of m+ dungeons for the next level, where the reward was... 2k versa.
Each level needed 30% more. It was a literraly unbeatable system. I think lvl86 was the world highest one...

Yes... there is a point when you techniqeuly beat the game, and your only option is reroll.
Thats why sandbox games are different. There the game ends when you are bored, not when you see its pointless. And you can rejoin the game later.

WoW doesn't need to be a sandbox game, but it could have a few elements.
In my experience, mmorpg-s main feature about the teamplay that aren't really highlighted because marketing pov it is boring:
- something that players can build and destroy
Capturing a castle, building a fort, increasing the glory of your race/faction/clan/whatever

-currency sinks
It can be even a quality of life feature, or the price of the sandbox building block
Once there will be players motivated to build and maintain something.
And those who realise they cannot afford their own fort that is designed to be maintained by 40 active players, they still can get motivation by farming the materials that those big guilds need to purchase to maintain what they built.

Normally it is a massive group project.
Again, my sweet memory from Lineage2 (sorry for bringing it up, but I really loved it as a kid, however that game was far from balanced too, I even ragequitted forever because of an ugly balance problem)
The clan was limited to members. Higher clan ranks needed quest items obtainable only from clan quests and raids.
Once the clan lvl was big enough they could get a clan hall either through contest (pvp) or auction.
The clan hall belonged to the guild, untill it was contested, sold or when the clan wasnt able to afford to pay the rent money.
Quality of life stuff came with the hall. Teleport to point of interests, faster hp/mana reg, unique craftable items... Each was an expensive purchasable item that lasted for a week.

Higher clans could join an alliance for extra features, and unlock siege skills, and castle controll.
For controlling a castle the alliance (fusion of guilds) had to hire elite soldiers, otherwise the next siege it would be only your alliance, against a horde of players...
(yeah... this part was really unbalanced, since most siege wasnt more than a megaallianceclan passed the controll to their friends...)

This is why I usually suggest that a player shouldnt become a main character of the lore of such a big game.
Back to WoW in first post thats why I suggest contribution system.
This is why I would never allow to xXxpwnz0rgg3zxXx become the owner of the Stormgrade keep.

This is why we have a contribution system, where we buff npc-s of our own faction.
Currently warfronts are so easy, that once you did the reward, you wont join again. If you already above 370 ilvl, the only reason to join will again... decrease...

And this is because the players are much much stronger than the npc-s.
The warfront advertise was an
- epic battle
- important of decisions
- strategic elements
...

Erm yeah...
"gogogog rush to ***"
"kick afkers111!!!!!!!"
"why is that f*ckin wall have so much hp QQ"

As a dps I could solo the creeps of the allience. It only slowd me down.
And this is not good.
The game do not punish you at all for bad decision. This is why the community creates an elitistjerk system.

So yeah...
Grinding is only a pointless repetative farm without purpose.
My suggestion is to give each lesser feature of a game a place in the big picture.

Posted by Kraivanah
Make the ring unlocking the other way around. Instead of starting outside with the boost than grinding for a lousy +5ilvl it should be the other way around.

So make the Carrot more difficult to get by making the grind longer is your suggestion?

See... this is my suggestion collection is problematic in this community.
You pinpointed out a small thing in a really big picture.
I think it is more motivational if the fun elements are unlocked later.
And now that I realise it, it should even stay as it is, because if you need to collect stuff in both pvp and pve the boring +5 ilvl is less broken in pvp. (however it doesnt really matter, because open world pvp is about who gathers more player for a ball of death)

And what do you think, how many players contribute currently? It only unlocks a siege feature, that will come without your contribution anyway.
If you boost your npc-s for a succesfull siege, you want to buy stuff from AH to buff your faction AND get the shiny AP, so the grinding will reduced.
Mate, all your suggestions are coming from a certain mindset that the majority of the playerbase don't have. Like I said before; most of your suggestions would be nice as additional options, not as baseline systems.

You can't turn WoW into a sandbox game, because it's not and it never has been.
Honestly, the more of your suggestions I read, the more I think you are simply playing the wrong game.

I know you mean well, but your suggestions would make the game more fun for about maybe 10% of the playerbase. For the rest it would be punishing, frustrating and grindy.
30/10/2018 16:28Posted by Tahra
Mate, all your suggestions are coming from a certain mindset that the majority of the playerbase don't have. Like I said before; most of your suggestions would be nice as additional options, not as baseline systems.

You can't turn WoW into a sandbox game, because it's not and it never has been.
Honestly, the more of your suggestions I read, the more I think you are simply playing the wrong game.

I know you mean well, but your suggestions would make the game more fun for about maybe 10% of the playerbase. For the rest it would be punishing, frustrating and grindy.

As I wrote... why is it better that the game is too optional?
There is a warmode, but apart from beating time there are no reason to turn it on.
Give me a motivation to become a psychopathic serialkiller.

The game have a proffession system, yet, if you try to level it up, you realise it is just a waste of time. There are dozens of recipes, yet... only a few of them are actually usefull. And where it could be handy, it isn't needed at all.

Why killing raid bosses when the open world and even the instances are capped?

WoW been degraded to a seasonal minigame where the content doesnt last too long because the new content patch replaces everything instead of adding to the game. Expensions aren't expanding the game, they just replace the carrot on the stick.

As soon as the new raid will come out, Uldir will be an empty place.
As soon as the new warfront comes out Stormgrade will be an empty scenario again (don't take it literally, I know from the few million players who play wows there are a handfull still go to Black Temple, but we can't say it is an actual part of the game now)

Mythic raiding is challenging. If you are in a guild that actually do mythic raids.
But HC raid perspective the game just become dull once you finished the content, and you just wait for the next content, and maybe spend time with other features of the game, since you already payed for it.

My suggestion want to give purpose of the few feature that each player likes instead been forced to try out the whole game.

Clearly I gave detailed suggestion what I'm interested in.
Normally I expect that people who play Bttle pet would give a suggestion that "you could farm pet tokens that can be turned to a mount buff"

I want to have the old WoW feeling that I had:
Finished raiding, and than I went to the open world, farmed herbs, and took "my part" of the economy by making potions, since most alchemist were flaskmasters.

I would like to see that if you picked blacksmith as a proffession, you would be motivated to get the materials by mining, or trading with players and make stuff.
What currently blacksmithing is?
A lvl 300 item? (apart from the bop)
Not even worth to craft it for disenchanters...

I think in an mmo rpg ecomony and social aspect should be on focus and rewarding.
Each element of the game should be important, but not mandatory.
If you love battle pet and skinning, have fun with it, and contribute your fun time to the players.
If the reward is overtuned than "players feel forced to reroll" But I start to bealive I am the few players on this game that have less then 5 toons (only 1.5 in BFA, 3 in legion), when this is the second expension where leveling an alt is the main timesink design.

However currently I can't see things in the middle
I either aim for mythic raid / rated pvp
or
wasting time and start questioning why am I even trying to gather cloths for tailoring, when I could just log off, cry on the forum or play a different game.

Does the game in wow change If I ignore to contribute materials?
If I don't gather any material?
Would anything change if I don't put anything in th AH?

The other side is true I think:
Im a heroic raider, but would anything change If i dont buy consumables? I'm nearly 370ilvl, and in pvp there are templates, and for heroic raid I'm already overgeared, and it's unlikely that I will find a myhtic raiding guild, since the new content is coming soon, so most guilds stopped recruiting anyway.

Does anything change if I turn warmode ON and decide to ignore enemy players?
Or if I start slaughtering enemy player?
Ok... it will mentally effect another human being behind the keyboard, but game perspective... will I change anything?

If the answers are truly NO (because any contraargument is pure nitpicking) than why is wow called an mmorpg?
What't the point of making such a huge world, when it's designed to be that only you are in it.
You can go to Silvermoon instead of OG where the streets are empty, and nothing changes.
It like joining a crowded chatroom, but you ignore the players avatar anyway, because all you care are Point of Interests, NPC-s and the chat, but the same things are available elsewhere...
And in a huge open world mmorpg this is a horrible design, and waste of efforts

the more I think you are simply playing the wrong game.

Than the question is:
What is that game that I am looking for?
Ok so I don't know how you consider yourself a semihardcore player (assuming that's your main) if you barely have played pve or pvp this xpack, you have pretty low amount of achievement points, only have 365ilvl (I geared my DH in 2 weeks from 280ilvl to 372) and you have tailoring as one of your professions.

There are 2 things that I agree with in your post and those are that the azerite traits should be unlocked in the opposite order and that Warfront is just a catch up mechanic.
05/11/2018 11:33Posted by Goriel
Ok so I don't know how you consider yourself a semihardcore player (assuming that's your main) if you barely have played pve or pvp this xpack, you have pretty low amount of achievement points, only have 365ilvl (I geared my DH in 2 weeks from 280ilvl to 372) and you have tailoring as one of your professions.

[/quote]
And this makes all my suggestion invalid?!

This is a damn reasonable valid point.

So where should I start?
First the guild want to progress mythic, but there isnt enough people to get in there.
So just because I am not grinding the same dungeon over and over and over and over again for a lucky TF proc, I only talk BS?

Btw: Semihardcore player means, that they don't play a lot, but that small amount of time they spend in the game, they want to spend it with challange.
I'm present on almost every guild raid. It's not my fault, that the bosses drop only sanguicell. As you can see, since the expension I still have a blue trinket.

But that doesn't really matter too much. It was stated by Devs long ago, that the ilvl required to a raid is reward -15. Since mythic Uldir drops 385, I am already at entry level.

Achievement points low... so what? Should I go and beat the 3 expension that I skipped to make my argument valid?!

And as you can see (who are we tyring to lie. ofc you don't even want to) is to create a world, where each element of the game can be a fun of its own, but still have its use in the big game.
Yet you guys trying to say, that I'm the selfish one for trying to give each feature of the game more depth, yet all mny argument is invalid, untill I'm forced to go PvP, metachi farm, treasurehunting, battle petting, fishing, and beat all the 7 expension that isnt part of the game anymore! just to make a valid point?!

btw... on of my sugestion was that each warfront scenerio in the future would need materials from the actual zone. So if you contributing for a warfront map in Winterspring, than you actually need thorium and other local resources and craftables from that level...

See... this is a motivation. This would make me turn pvp on and bash an alliance player.
Not a...
"ok... imah bored... lets go for a stupid zergfest into a random bg for a 350 item... even if most slots I have 370..."

Or do you want me to farm pet battles? Well... that's not my cup of tea, doesn't matter if its a sorce of legendary item, I won't do it, because I hate pokemon.

But insted of this I log off and play other games, and only log in for a guild raid.
To be honest... not even really bothered with dungeon runs either. In my last 5 try people ragequitted and shattered my key 5 levels. Reason? Who the hell knows. I think they expected a smooth faceroll run that can beat world record time, and they just left. Who cares. No punishment for it.
I would say, I disagree with most points by original poster.

My criticism of the current game is not as forgiving. I don't see as much positive in the game ATM, so can't say this or that is OK. I see the current game as a steaming pile of crap.

With that background, hard to be constructive. Most "features" of BFA need to be abandoned, forsaken, reverted, as many, many people do not like them. Is that constructive?
19/10/2018 12:49Posted by Sorakleon
Thank you for your feedback Kraivanah :)

I know it can be disheartening for constructive feedback to go unanswered, but rest assured it does not go unnoticed.


!@#$ %^-* !@#$ %^-*! A mewblue appeared on the eu forums, where is my masterball dammit!

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