Make gear matter again

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31/10/2018 02:26Posted by Varileztra
30/10/2018 21:32Posted by Worldsbest
Go raid mythic and get your realistic best in slot.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
i like how you think there would be BiS items dropping in the raid :'D Garbage it is, that raids are droping nowadays, if you want your BiS stuff, you spend 24/7 in m+, because of retardforging and overall much more loot than in a raid.

retardforging is not fun in the long run. Yes hampidumby is having this one second fun burst, when he gets his 395 + socket + avoidance luckdrop from the worldquest, and then thinks he can finally play with the other guys, because it was only his gear holding him back, juuuuuuuuuuuuuuuust to be brought back to reality the hard way and then being the sad sad koala again, but now he escapes reality again, because it was these bad bad elitists that blocked his path.

An activity has to give APPROPRIATE rewards for that activity. Having even the CHANCE of getting a BiS item from a world quest is NOT appropriate, unless that world quest is on par with a mythic boss in terms of difficulty, which they aren't and never will be.


Garbage doesnt drop in raids sorry to inform you , and for your cocksure moronic response to be true requires lots of sufficent evidence.

385 from mythic - garbage ? yeah ok its garbage because its not forged is it XDDD

Pls link and compare all the loot tables, do the brain work , since you brought it up, you plank.

Do it for evry peice of loot + do all of the testing for every single class, also prove the testing you show is valid.

Ok ? so come back with sufficent evidence for your absolute moronic claim, you utter fool.

No one is stopping you from getting 395 trinket from 5 minute trash.

if i wanted to do mythic id have to group up with very possible !@#$ for brains like yourself, do you think i am as stupid as you are.?

-------

ANd, you clown king, the BASE I LEVEL LOOT DROPS HAVE A BIGGER CHANCE OF DROPPING DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

IS an FING APPROPRIATE REWARD . Mythic flat 385 Hur hurr

JEEZ LOUIS ID POSSIBLY GOUGE OUT MY EYES FOR THE CHANCE TO THROW JERKS LIKE YOU OUT OF A HELICOPTOR!

go smuggle drugs in the philapeans or something ! DO something positive for once in your I level nut licking life.
...

If i cared about mythic + so much i would do more, as for being on time the last one i did was a plus 2 and we finished it easily and set the weekly record.

as far as im concerned ive done 2 mythic + runs only .

I know what this is , because you are huge ego arrogant fool, you think everyone else is .. sorry i do dungeons for fun and if i feel like, and i wont be doing many mythic + runs until i do some easier ones first, unless they are a + 2 , i havent even been in all the dungeons yet probably either.

We all have to start somewhere , clowns such as yourself rush through and then expect everyone else to also, but6 mythic + is almost impossible to gate twit, and with forging, its so very nice for gears for the players who are competent enough to do the high keys

You will never5 be worlds best because you are an IDIOT:P.

Must really Piss you off that your i level isnt so special anymore :P!


My ilvl was never special, I just find it hilarious to argue with scrubs who fight for titanforging like their life depends on it. And with all the statistics and stuff it's easy to find your main, you tried to complete normal Uldir, you tried mythic+, but you couldn't get past 3rd boss in Uldir and +3, so go on, keep trolling on your alt how "Raiding is cancerous" as you say in your many comments that I enjoy reading.


Your little stalking addon is faulty , now , armoury may be flawed but seemingly its raid progression isn't flawed.

DO you see any raid progression on this at all?

No you do not , and the reason you do not see any raid progression is because i havent set foot in a raid, ive had some chances to go, but i decided for X reasons not to go.

And i certainly wont be useing the cancerous LFG system where alot of the i lvel bis loot !@#$%s lurk.
I helped one of my friend that was on an alt on some M0,he dropped a trinket on freehold 360+socket and a 380 wrist....
Absolutely disgusting...
Gear dont matter anything,you dont have anything to work with.
You never have a bis item unless titanforged 395 (or 400?) + socket and leech,bis item doesnt exist anymore.
Either you remove this bullsh*t or give players that do challenging content a way to control this slot machine gear progression.
Also im in favour to remove titanforging from afk content and easy content,giving free gear to player doesnt make them good let them work for the gear.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

My ilvl was never special, I just find it hilarious to argue with scrubs who fight for titanforging like their life depends on it. And with all the statistics and stuff it's easy to find your main, you tried to complete normal Uldir, you tried mythic+, but you couldn't get past 3rd boss in Uldir and +3, so go on, keep trolling on your alt how "Raiding is cancerous" as you say in your many comments that I enjoy reading.


Your little stalking addon is faulty , now , armoury may be flawed but seemingly its raid progression isn't flawed.

DO you see any raid progression on this at all?

No you do not , and the reason you do not see any raid progression is because i havent set foot in a raid, ive had some chances to go, but i decided for X reasons not to go.

And i certainly wont be useing the cancerous LFG system where alot of the i lvel bis loot !@#$%s lurk.


There's no such thing as stalking addon, I just bluffed to see if you'd get desperate enough to post on your main, and thank you for doing so, now if we look at that piece of art, 8/8 LFR, never touched an Uldir raid, two mythic+ dungeons, and no pvp record, which points you barely play the game, same goes for Sulaa who tries so hard to defend options for her to get big ilvl gear. She claims she doesn't care about items and calls other elitists, and yet she wants so badly to be able to get high ilvl items without doing any content that rewards them. And that right there is my 0 effort point for you two, no effort, wanting rewards.

After your 1327 posts where you call raiding harmful to game and berate any rpg element WoW has, you got so easily lured into posting on your main by a few taunting comments, can't take criticism? Me saying you can't complete a mythic2 in time made you want to prove it to me you can? Then you do care, you are proud you completed that mythic2 in time and you could push much more, and you should, you'd have more fun in the game and see what the game is about. As for raiding, that requires guild, unless you're gonna pug normals like me.

There's no special talent that lets you clear heroic/mythic raids, finish high level keys, you just need a committed group and some effort, the more effort you do, the more time you put into it, the closer you get to your goal. If you are not willing to put in any effort, then don't spit on those that are.
I have suggestion that might make gear=time spent.
There used to be an option where you could upgrade your gear with a currency at MOP. Make players able to upgrade their gear to warforged by upgrading them 2 times and titanforged by upgrading them 4 times.
If you win a warforged or titanforged loot it will be like getting a free upgrade.
31/10/2018 07:39Posted by Skyrha
...

Your little stalking addon is faulty , now , armoury may be flawed but seemingly its raid progression isn't flawed.

DO you see any raid progression on this at all?

No you do not , and the reason you do not see any raid progression is because i havent set foot in a raid, ive had some chances to go, but i decided for X reasons not to go.

And i certainly wont be useing the cancerous LFG system where alot of the i lvel bis loot !@#$%s lurk.


There's no such thing as stalking addon, I just bluffed to see if you'd get desperate enough to post on your main, and thank you for doing so, now if we look at that piece of art, 8/8 LFR, never touched an Uldir raid, two mythic+ dungeons, and no pvp record, which points you barely play the game, same goes for Sulaa who tries so hard to defend options for her to get big ilvl gear. She claims she doesn't care about items and calls other elitists, and yet she wants so badly to be able to get high ilvl items without doing any content that rewards them. And that right there is my 0 effort point for you two, no effort, wanting rewards.

After your 1327 posts where you call raiding harmful to game and berate any rpg element WoW has, you got so easily lured into posting on your main by a few taunting comments, can't take criticism? Me saying you can't complete a mythic2 in time made you want to prove it to me you can? Then you do care, you are proud you completed that mythic2 in time and you could push much more, and you should, you'd have more fun in the game and see what the game is about. As for raiding, that requires guild, unless you're gonna pug normals like me.

There's no special talent that lets you clear heroic/mythic raids, finish high level keys, you just need a committed group and some effort, the more effort you do, the more time you put into it, the closer you get to your goal. If you are not willing to put in any effort, then don't spit on those that are.


Lol. Well played. Actually been in a guild with this guy, I'm enjoying this.
Both my characters are 360+ ilvl without ever stepping into Uldir on normal or higher. I can't tell whether someone is wearing good gear or bad gear, because there are no notable gear pieces. Every gear piece is just named "whatsitsface" and the only relevant part is whether the piece is titanforged or not
@ Fatum
"you need gear? go get greens from quests or make gear with your professions.
you need better ones, blues? do dungeons, BGs, or farm rare mats for your professions.
you need even better ones, purples? into raid instances/ high level pvp you go or prepare for a long journey to gather the items for your prof..."

This makes the most sense to me. Simple and effective and pretty much what it used to be like.
From my point of view I don't much like the WF/TF system. That said I think the old systems are outdated, so I think compromise is needed.

I don't raid anymore (guild drags me through HC once per tier for the achievements) so spend most of my time in M+ (which I enjoy).

Now in contrast to your above comments, and oddly, in contrast to my own first sentence - the majority of my gearing from the last 2 expansions has been via M+ rewards and/or TF from the cache.

Now I enjoy M+, I like the approach that there are multiple gearing paths however I would be happier with a more linear gear progression.

I hate Wednesdays, the cache of despair is often a huge letdown, the RNG nature of it often means that the chance for gear progression is out of your control but also often a massive letdown. To give a couple of examples, I went through a 4 week streak of legs, then today I get a 370 2H which is a 2% downgrade to my 365. I wish you could "game" the system a bit.

As in;
a) The cache will drop loot only from the table of the highest key you've done that week. That would allow a more targeted approach to gear, sort of like an additional coin roll - you can target the dungeon and a ilvl item based on highest M+ key but not the slot, or;

b) A token which when discovered selects from a "pool" of gear slots from all dungeons based off the ilvl of 4 lowest items, even if the ilvl of the cache reward is reduced (to match base drop for that key?) at least you know that you will get an item from a specific slot - ilvl based off highest key, if your lowest ilvl slots are rings and trinkets at 355 you need to complete at least a +7 (360ilvl end of dungeon loot) to know you'll get a shot at an upgrade. Now with this method you can't target specific loot tables so RNG exists in as much as the slot and ilvl are target-able but not the specific item. Rings 1+2 and Trinkets 1+2 count as 1 each, no double dipping.

I have no issues (obviously) with M+ gear rewarding similar ilvl to Mythic raids, however it should be comparable in difficulty, is a +10 the same difficulty as mythic raids? I'm not sure it is.

Making you work through raids or various stages of M+ to get to a specific ilvl, not get 8 lucky TF procs on lower content and now you can magically do higher M+ or higher difficulty raids. Instead I'd like to see WF/TF to become tertiary stat upgrades, maybe a slight ilvl increase but for it to be capped say +5 +10 with WF giving 1 tertiary upgrades and TF 2-3 so for example a TF 355 may become at a maximum 365 titanforge with Leech, Speed, Indestructible.

I'd also like to see sockets removed and factored into the stat weight for the item.
I always liked reforging, however I can see why it was removed, sockets on most items (factored into stat weight) would be a way to customise gear, make the gem trade explode and allow for targeted stats if the item you rolled is only a side-grade.

As for raids/M0/dungeons, I don't mind the current loot method, overall I find it less frustrating than whole loot table drops, except the usual confusion about inability to trade items you don't want. The only other issue I have with personal loot is class stacking, or the need to.

I do most of my M+ with friends (Mage, Mage/Pala, Lock, Priest), heavy cloth stacking, which is fine for them as they can trade gear freely, I am entirely limited to the accessory slots for trade, no neck this expac, trinkets don't always extend between caster and melee/tank, won't get weapons, this limits me to rings and cloaks. I don't want to, or shouldn't have to stack plate classes to get better chance of gear.

Why not extend the azerite currency vendor, enchanting & my point b) above.
Unwanted gear can be disenchanted (or scrapped if its easier) and in addition to shards/mats rewards an unnamed currency. This currency can be traded in for a token (like the legendaries we all loved) which when "discovered" gives an item for one of the 4 slots you have at the lowest ilvl. This item will always be appropriate to your average ilvl rounded up, currency amount relative to ilvl/quality of gear de'd.
Example; I am 366ilvl my lowest 4 slots are Bracers, Trinket 1 + 2, all at 355, Ring 1 + 2 360 & 365 and belt 365. Rings and Trinkets count as 1, no double dipping. so Bracers, Ring, Trinket, Belt. Token will discover an item from one of those slots at 370ilvl (my 366 rounded up).

In addition to the above, we need to remove the limitations on trading gear you don't want. ilvl is/was always meant to be an upgrade over secondary stats, as seen in my cache this week that is not the case, I have a higher ilvl weapon that is a downgrade partially due to the stats but also the 365 has higher top end (lower low end) damage, creating a slightly lower DPS but has better stats, if this dropped for me in a dungeon I wouldn't want it but would be unable to trade it as it's a higher ilvl than what I have, this is ridiculous.

So that is General, M+ and Dungeons solved.

Raids are OK except for the crossover points above, I wouldn't mind Mythic raid gear being slightly higher than what can be attained elsewhere, the other thing though is prestige. Colour variants for all Mythic gear vs normal or HC is not sufficient, we don't need set bonus based tiers to get the artwork surely, even if it is a transmorg unlock per item per boss culminating in a full suit of awesome looking gear, not what is current, but an actual per class set.

Then I suppose it's on to the obvious part, scaling.

I think it's a fair assumption that tuning should be based around completion of the previous difficulty tier. Obviously some more "skilled" individuals may be able to jump but for the most part this should be true.

You shouldn't be able to complete Normal, then jump straight in to Mythic. You shouldn't be able to get 320 and jump straight into M+4. With making gearing more linear, progression needs to be more linear too. Now I'm not saying you need to be full 340(M0) prior to doing a +1, but neither should general public be 355 and breezing through +9s. I wouldn't even be against removing end of dungeon gear for failed timers. This would require people to do appropriate keys for their combined group ilvl and work up through the ranks of M+

... and I'd like to see gear tags expanded;
Raid Finder, Raid, Heroic Raid, Mythic Raid
Dungeon, Heroic Dungeon, Mythic Dungeon, Mythic 1-xx, Mythic Cache

As for PVP, with new conquest we're half way there, Honor is OK as is, elite gear is a good concept for rated rewards and prestige however there is a lot of noise regarding the desire for vendors. That's fine, but we clearly have short memories. Everytime you cycle conq, instead of a set item in a set order (which is not fun) implement point b) above. Token and discovery gives you an item you need from the pool of lowest ilvl slots appropriate for your average ilvl. Always getting an item you need. Want to switch from Outlaw to Sin but don't have daggers? Switch your loot spec to Sin, conq token detects you don't have a dagger, guaranteed dagger. Want to switch from Ele to Enhance but don't have a trinket? conq token detects that you have a caster trink and gives a melee one (or "shared" e.g. stat stick).

All this in combination gives players (of either type) better access to relevant gear, more linear upgrade options, appropriate content targets, constant aims. You aren't getting welfare gear, you're earning every bit through appropriate content but still getting time/effort controlled upgrades.

In summary;
    > WF items capped at +5 ilvl increase with a guaranteed tertiary stat
    > TF Items capped at +10 ilvl increase with a guaranteed 2+ tertiary stat
    > Sockets removed from upgraded items, included in stat weight budget.
    > M+ cache changed to work as either point a) or b) above
    > Transmorg sets to mimic style of tier per class as a reward for Raid content, raid specific.
    > M+ transmorg per class, season specific (Like CM sets), maybe each dungeon on a +15 in time? Something like that.
    > PvP Conquest cycles to award tokens which can be "discovered" for gear.
    > Disenchanting or scrapping gear rewards currency in addition to mats which can be traded for a discovery token
go play Classic if u really want that.
31/10/2018 12:08Posted by Raiden
go play Classic if u really want that.


Aimed at me?

No thanks, whilst not an opinion shared by many I much prefer current iterations of wow over vanilla. Tweeks to current systems and models is not the same as asking to go back to the stone age. Archaic systems and endless grinds don't make good fun for a 30 year old in 2018 - I might play Classic for nostalgia, I recon I'll get to level 26, maybe.

If you think what I've posted above is anything like Vanilla/Classic either you didn't play, have misread (admittedly its a longer post than expected), or your comment wasn't aimed at me.
30/10/2018 16:00Posted by Aarna
Instant gratification (immediate satisfaction; the quick attainability of happiness or of contentness. ) is terrible for the long term game . They added to much for the casual players this backfired tremendously .

High ilvl items without challenging content . Now the exact same players have nothing to do with they're ilvl because no1 want's them in m+ and they are bored with the game because they didn't do anything worthwhile to deserve the gear they have on .Wow in a nutshell .

This is not evolution of the game giving players high ilvl for free out of warfronts and emissary . This using players as cashcows . They are "filled with content" on a very short period .
But that's just my opinion .


Agree with that. I noticed very quickly that WoW was messing with my reward system badly. And I am thinking man, is this even legal to fuel potential gaming addiction patterns like that?
30/10/2018 16:00Posted by Aarna
High ilvl items without challenging content . Now the exact same players have nothing to do with they're ilvl because no1 want's them in m+ and they are bored with the game because they didn't do anything worthwhile to deserve the gear they have on .Wow in a nutshell .


As opposed to people having nothing to do because nobody wants them due to their low ilvl. They wouldn't get bored then i guess right?
Also have you ever thought that maybe not everyone is here for the hamster wheel? maybe you're thinking about Diablo

30/10/2018 16:00Posted by Aarna
This is not evolution of the game giving players high ilvl for free out of warfronts and emissary . This using players as cashcows . They are "filled with content" on a very short period .


So again, now that blizzard is speeding up progression and gives everyone the tools to quickly jump into whatever content they want, means they are using us as "cashcows".
But when they were giving out 3 items to a raid of 40, that was "good game design" and in no way a tactic to stretch out content as much as possible in order to keep people subscribed for longer.

This is some bizzaro logic right there.

Lastly what's this obsession everyone has with giving people what they deserve? who exactly do you think you are to know what everyone deserves and how do you decide that? suddenly everyone is acting like a supreme court judge here

31/10/2018 04:16Posted by Toiren
I helped one of my friend that was on an alt on some M0,he dropped a trinket on freehold 360+socket and a 380 wrist....
Absolutely disgusting...


Yeah i'm sure your friend felt awful and probably unsubscribed in protest.
31/10/2018 04:16Posted by Toiren
I helped one of my friend that was on an alt on some M0,he dropped a trinket on freehold 360+socket and a 380 wrist....
Absolutely disgusting...


Yeah i'm sure your friend felt awful and probably unsubscribed in protest.[/quote]

Nah but thinked that was stupid and agreed with me when i sayed this is not a good loot system and there is too much rng,this high titanforge shouldnt drop on semi-afk content...
I have a 395 ring,in fact i dropped the ring with haste mastery from underrot 395 2 times,first from an underrot 13 (or it was 14 i cant remember) 2nd time from the M+ weekly chest 4 days later.....
That doesnt make me like this system,doesnt mean that dropping high level gear=happy players.
I really wouldnt mind titanforging if blizzard adds a way to control this from player who play challenging content,like some kind of currency.
People like to get their bis or good gear long after season is over?
Game purpose should be having fun, but most raiders thinks chance of having loot is fun and exciting.
I am totaly opposing that.
Why you should wait 6 -8 weeks or months to get a loot ?
Right now you get your bis loot without socket or bonus stat and you are unhappy. Thats totally absurd. You got your bis and play next week with that bis doing better performance. Why are you sad about not getting +15 titanforged , socket , extra stats.
Most of the raiders are pointless in that way. If you have good raid group and you need 2 3 guys, just pick them with experience not with gear then.
Last point: you raiders want elite status that noone else should have gear like you. These complains wont stop i guess
yes please, first step ; delete it.
30/10/2018 21:25Posted by Leymaiden
30/10/2018 20:54Posted by Elmex
I’m playing mythic plus because of the gear but , it was awesome to see someone wearing full raid gear at mythic or HC .


That's an argument towards tier sets rather than the WF/TF debate to be honest and I kinda agree. The list of completing and acquiring unique bonuses that are both class and raid specific gave a sense of both personal and teaming progress.

With Azerite traits there are no class unique traits hidden behind the raids. And even if they were, they don't stand out as much as a 8/8 set bonus.

But, once again, that's completely out of the discussion over WF/TF.


Actually it is in this topic . WF/TF together with mythic +, have completely removed raid gear progression . On my warrior I finished Uldir, and run mythic + . One dungeon 4-5 times and get 3 or 2 items min, that are 350 ilvl. So there is no need for me to run raid . I’ll keep repeating same freaking dungeon and tnx to WF/TF i even get some nice gear for same boring content . 3 weeks and I have outgeared mythic raid. Outgeared raid by running 3 dungeons over and over again? Please tell me you call that great gameplay ? Instead of running dungeons to get gear for next diff of dungeons , so you can gear up and be able to raid . Nooo!! We don’t need that. Just repeat one dungeon till you get all 5-6 pieces that you need , 2 will be wf/tf and that’s it. This doesn’t change topic of wf/tf to mythic+ runs. Probably if blizzard would remove this some new player would have harder time to catch up , and that’s why I wouldn’t like that they remove it . I can’t ask only for my self. This is only my view what destroyed the game and gear system . Only thing I would remove right now is mythic + . I run mythic + don’t get me wrong it’s simpy booting tuning same dungeon over and over
Meh since you guys post alot of threads about gear I guess it matters more than needed.
lol i still remember the "gear doesnt matter, its skill that matters" when not being invited because of gearscore/ilvl

and here we are now "skill doesnt matter, make gear matter again"

this is just people that want to afk in faction base playing inspect/dress up contest
"mine is bigger than yours"

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