How do you feel now about templates?

Battlegrounds
Kind of curious what your thoughts are now.

My opi would be: It wasn't a great system as it was but if you could tweek your stats I think it would far better than what we have now
I liked templates, and I liked WoD pvp gearing path.

I don't even know what we have now, what's it called? Whatever it is, I don't particularly like it.
I'm a firm believer that templates are the worst thing Blizzard have ever done with this game.
Templates are a disaster.
180 degrees from what wow is.

We will end up playing a very bad first person shooter with this equality bs
Lets take a moment and thank mr Holinka for !@#$ing up PvP few years ago.
Thanks Brian , you really killed the PvP aspect of the game by adding this cancerthing
06/11/2018 13:25Posted by Maerlin
Kind of curious what your thoughts are now.

My opi would be: It wasn't a great system as it was but if you could tweek your stats I think i would far better than what we have now


Allowing players to tweek the stats would just cause more imbalance. Sure now we can choose our stats but we are constrained by the gear we get.
Templates are a good idea if you want your PvP to be about skill and not class/gear, unfortunately the Legion implementation never resulted in equal power between classes, so it was a bad example.

What I've come to understand though is that many people in WoW equates skill to progression or time spent building the character.
They feel the additional effort/time they spent should give them an advantage.

Templates if you want to bring a knife to a knife fight.
No templates if you want to bring a gun to the knife fight.
07/11/2018 14:49Posted by Ysbeer


What I've come to understand though is that many people in WoW equates skill to progression or time spent building the character.


Management is a skill, it'snot all about pressing buttons.

07/11/2018 14:49Posted by Ysbeer
They feel the additional effort/time they spent should give them an advantage.


This is an MMORPG, not a moba or a FPS. If you want a game where you jump straight into the action on even footing with everybody else regardless of how long you've played, MMOs arent for you.

07/11/2018 14:49Posted by Ysbeer
Templates if you want to bring a knife to a knife fight.
No templates if you want to bring a gun to the knife fight.


Templates if you want to play a MOBA
No templates if you want to play an MMORPG
What kind of skill when most classes got pruned so hard. Even before the prune there was no balance. Like mages before cata lololing at all melees while melees are stuck in slows roots freezes or rogues laughing at you when they stunlock you before the DRs . You presz 1 and your enemy press 1 too but he win becouse he can cc you whole day and this is skills
Templates were bad.
I think the WoD system was best. No templates and all gear capped at Hc raid level for randoms. Allows some progression and more importantly allows the player to work for stats that suit their playstyle/class/random preference.
07/11/2018 16:06Posted by Miylee
07/11/2018 14:49Posted by Ysbeer


What I've come to understand though is that many people in WoW equates skill to progression or time spent building the character.


Management is a skill, it'snot all about pressing buttons.

07/11/2018 14:49Posted by Ysbeer
They feel the additional effort/time they spent should give them an advantage.


This is an MMORPG, not a moba or a FPS. If you want a game where you jump straight into the action on even footing with everybody else regardless of how long you've played, MMOs arent for you.

07/11/2018 14:49Posted by Ysbeer
Templates if you want to bring a knife to a knife fight.
No templates if you want to bring a gun to the knife fight.


Templates if you want to play a MOBA
No templates if you want to play an MMORPG


You seem to be offended by my comments for some reason.
All I indicated is that the community is roughly divided between those types of people. I didn't say one or the other is wrong. Just an indication of why some will be pro templates and others not. There will never be agreement on this because tastes differ.

People like to refer back to the fact that this is a MMORPG as if that validates that gear progression must be a factor. This is in fact wrong. All it indicates is that its big, online and you role play. Gear progression is just one of the things that many RPG's do, but its by no means mandatory for every aspect of it.
Do everybody in WoW role play? No.
Do Pet Battles need gear progression? No.
Is Battlefield an RPG because you progress gear(guns, attachments, vehicle perks etc)? No.
FYI, the ERP in Goldshire is actual role-playing, while foaming at the people who didn't study tactics online before entering the Raid is not.
Templates are good and put equalness in PvP. Now Azerite is total trash for PvP. Same PvE mechanic back in PvP.

Only minus I see in template was stats switching, in WoD time I can switch gear to more haste parts, to more crit or whatever I want to try. Now also you can't switch it easy, because you can't buy honor gear for that purpose.

Current PvP compared to template version is in worse state.
08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer

You seem to be offended by my comments for some reason.


Responding to you doesn't mean I'm offended, it means you've said something stupid and requires a response.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
All I indicated is that the community is roughly divided between those types of people. I didn't say one or the other is wrong.


So your "no templates if you want to bring a gun to a knife fight" wasn't an implication that you believe that one side is doing it wrong?

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
Just an indication of why some will be pro templates and others not. There will never be agreement on this because tastes differ.


And people's tastes differ because people prefer different styles of games.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
People like to refer back to the fact that this is a MMORPG as if that validates that gear progression must be a factor.


Gear and character strength are as much a factor as levelling and questing. Those 3 things are core factors of an MMORPG, other things like battlegrounds and dungeons/raids are secondary. Those are the things you do for fun, to show off how you've built your character.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
This is in fact wrong.


You having a different view does not, in fact, make something a fact.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
All it indicates is that its big, online and you role play.


It doesn't imply that you role-play at all. Final Fantasy games are RPGs, I don't role-play on those.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
Gear progression is just one of the things that many RPG's do, but its by no means mandatory for every aspect of it.


It's a core feature of an MMO. An MMO is a game where you work on your character, not one where you instantly join a game on equal footing to everybody else and fight for absolutely no reason; that's a moba.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
Do everybody in WoW role play? No.


Does everybody on final fantasy 7 roleplay? Oh, they don't?

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
Do Pet Battles need gear progression? No.


Pet battles are a secondary gamemode, a bit of fun for bored people. They're a distraction, that is all.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
Is Battlefield an RPG because you progress gear(guns, attachments, vehicle perks etc)? No.


Now you're just grasping at straws.

08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
FYI, the ERP in Goldshire is actual role-playing, while foaming at the people who didn't study tactics online before entering the Raid is not.


Foaming at people who ruin your raids is part of the O experience.
08/11/2018 08:00Posted by Ysbeer
All I indicated is that the community is roughly divided between those types of people. I didn't say one or the other is wrong.


So your "no templates if you want to bring a gun to a knife fight" wasn't an implication that you believe that one side is doing it wrong?

Are you daft? The answer is literally in the quote: I didn't say one or the other is wrong

If you bring a gun to knife fight you are literally bringing superior gear to the fight. This is exactly what happens when you don't have templates. You will probably win because you have an advantage.

If you bring a knife to a knife fight you're on equal footing and the winner will be determined by their knife fighting skill. This is what templates would work like if they were implemented properly. Unfortunately they never managed to balance it properly so it never resulted in equal footing.

If you're offended by that then you are basically making a case for templates, because you view gear based PvP as inferior(doing it wrong).
Wasn't a huge fan of templates, but I did like the fact there was a baseline, so I could jump into pvp on fresh alts and be useful, even if my actual gear was a bunch of questing greens.

Now if i try to do any sort of pvp on a fresh max level character I'm only useful for my cc abilities, as I'm liable to be 2 shot by some classes/specs, whilst my damage is pitiful.

Wouldn't mind if they added a minimum ilvl for pvp content, where everyone gets scaled to atleast say... 340 ilvl that increases with each patch. But god forbid, keep templates out.
Templates were equally bad to this mess.
WoD was the best system.

Templates had their ups and downs but as someone who didn't exactly care for customization because something was always the best way to go for the spec I played, it made very little difference to me and after the first two seasons (When they increased stat budgets across the board) I really didn't mind them. My spec played absolutely fine with the stats it was given, and I didn't feel some sort of panging loss of my ability to make my character worse for no explicable reason.

Being constrained by drops in the current system feels awful, as does the balance on defensive Azerite traits and tonne of other things to do with gearing.

WoD was the better system. Templates had a lot of positives, but the system has been completely tainted in the minds of many by the complete lack of stat customization, where there could very easily have been at least some, and the current BFA system is the worst by far.
biggest incentive killer to PvP ever.

the current system is almost as bad only thing making it slightly better is the fact that I can use my actual trinkets and gem/enchant my gear.

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