Titanforging - An unsatifying experience

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Nice to read all of the comments. Alot of differences of opinion but I still think we can all aggre that their should be some sort of new into the rng. EG a price from normal shouldnt get better ilvl then a peice you can get from heroic. The piece from mythic might have a similar effect regarding what ilvl dropps froms which key. A lvl 2 key cant have forged armor higher then the lvl 5-6 maybe? And so on! Makes sure to share you experience with titanforging and quote others ideas and suggestions. We are all here to understand what others think of the matter not convince someone to hate titanforging. We are all different people thinking differnet about things, that aint changing. We are here to find common ground, not push of it! Stay awesome!
I dislike it because it feels like a slot machine . We should have more options to choose how we get our gear :

1 is rng if players like the thrill of the hunt and rely on pure randomness

2nd should be vendors with token system (xy) number of token/ finishing m+ both in time and off timer or for other activities .

It just feels normal to have options for everyone . In the past there wasn't any m+ so don't bring the argument Rng existed since begining the game change and evolved to something else .
untrue, RNG has existed since the beginning. A boss might simply never drop the piece of loot you in particular want.

And it seems it will take more expansions before people give up on the notions of getting total BIS gear.
28/10/2018 15:17Posted by Tahra
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ofcourse noone runs for the sole purpose of getting a warforge, but when the system is in and you actually get an item you've looked forward to only to realise oh crap it didnt TF / WF to the highest quality of this item with a gem and teritary stat. it feels wrong. its like someone said earlier in the thread, its not about what other people get. its about getting something that should feel rewarding, but then it isnt because it COULD have been better.


This is not a real problem.
This is all down to entitlement.
They think they should have that TF proc.
What they don't seem to understand is that it's merely a bonus. A nice extra. Not something to grind out. Not something to expect. Not something you NEED.

It's a nice surprise if it happens. Nothing more.
Don't expect it to happen. Problem solved.


Tahra you just don't understand it does matter.
More so for a casual player ( I myself am a casual player) who only plays a few hours a week.

For a person who only plays a few hours a week it is currently impossible to get your full BiS because of TF. If you say you can still get it by just getting the base ilvl I swear I will scream, that is not BiS, BiS is max ilvl of the best item with best stats for that slot, which currently would be a TF item with socket and 3rd stat.......

I have stopped doing higher level content and just farming old content for mounts and Tmog now, as I don't feel the drive to try high level content or join a progress guild and I will never get that feeling of getting my full BiS in current tier.

Have unsubbed for now will see if I will resub later once my current game time has run out but probably won't untill TF is gone or fixed to a certain degree.
28/10/2018 19:34Posted by Izila

Ignore it? What? That doesn't even make sense. Sure people can ignore it, it doesn't remove the issues people have with it.


Oh for some of those issues it really would. Like the jealousy thing and such.

28/10/2018 19:34Posted by Izila

"The ilvl bloat is ridiculous, we need a stat squish after every expansion and we've had poor tuning because of TF."


Ilvl bloat doesn't have anything to do with TF. Not a thing.
Ilvl bloat exists because of 2 reasons:

1) the 15 ilvl raise per raid tier
2) having 4 different raid difficulties (so that would be 4x 15 ilvls per raid tier)

28/10/2018 19:34Posted by Izila

Who said anything about progression? I'm not sure why you brought that up, I never mentioned it. I mentioned PL just as another example of things "elitist people" don't like but are forced to deal with regardless.


Yeah but I was talking about things elitist players want changed about the game that would affect EVERYONE. There's no such things from casual players. None.
All the stuff that's purely for casuals, you can ignore/bypass/skip.

You might not be happy with every feature in the game, neither am I, but that doesn't mean its okay to ask for the entire game to be tailored to the way I (or you) play the game. And it's also not okay to blame people who have nothing to do with those features for them.
29/10/2018 21:07Posted by Kamazh
untrue, RNG has existed since the beginning. A boss might simply never drop the piece of loot you in particular want.

True, but there is all the difference in the world between a 1-in-8 drop chance, where the odds are on your side to get what you want while the content is current, and a 1-in-2000 chance, where the odds are very small, and not worth trying for.
29/10/2018 21:07Posted by Kamazh
And it seems it will take more expansions before people give up on the notions of getting total BIS gear.

Alternative formulation: it will take more expansions before people who want to work towards something all leave the game because it is unsatisfying.
29/10/2018 21:47Posted by Sebarial

Tahra you just don't understand it does matter.
More so for a casual player ( I myself am a casual player) who only plays a few hours a week.

For a person who only plays a few hours a week it is currently impossible to get your full BiS because of TF. If you say you can still get it by just getting the base ilvl I swear I will scream, that is not BiS, BiS is max ilvl of the best item with best stats for that slot, which currently would be a TF item with socket and 3rd stat.......


And that is a prime example of a self-inflicted problem.
You do not need BiS. You simply don't.
The fact that you want, or worse even expect, to get BiS is just silly. Stop setting unrealistic goals and you'll have a much better time playing this game.

It's like me expecting to get a vicious saddle. Do I want one? Hell yes.
Do I expect to get one? Nope. Never going to happen.
Do I want the PvP system changed or removed because I can't get what I want? Of course not (although honestly I would really like a solo rated queue).

And btw, just to explain what kind of player I am;
I am casual in the type of content I choose to do.
I am not casual in the amount of time and work I'm willing (and able) to dedicate to a game.

29/10/2018 21:47Posted by Sebarial

I have stopped doing higher level content and just farming old content for mounts and Tmog now, as I don't feel the drive to try high level content or join a progress guild and I will never get that feeling of getting my full BiS in current tier.

Have unsubbed for now will see if I will resub later once my current game time has run out but probably won't untill TF is gone or fixed to a certain degree.


That's entirely your prerogative.
I don't think it will be removed though. And it's already been fixed (bit too much imo even, but that's a different conversation).

Like I said; the problem you have with TF is entirely created by you yourself.
You can fix that problem by setting your goals just a bit differently. You don't need to have BiS. Baseline item is fine. Why do you need BiS? Explain it to me please, because I seriously don't understand.
I originally posted following almost 2 years ago:
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614414967
29/10/2018 22:07Posted by Tahra
29/10/2018 21:47Posted by Sebarial

Tahra you just don't understand it does matter.
More so for a casual player ( I myself am a casual player) who only plays a few hours a week.

For a person who only plays a few hours a week it is currently impossible to get your full BiS because of TF. If you say you can still get it by just getting the base ilvl I swear I will scream, that is not BiS, BiS is max ilvl of the best item with best stats for that slot, which currently would be a TF item with socket and 3rd stat.......


And that is a prime example of a self-inflicted problem.
You do not need BiS. You simply don't.
The fact that you want, or worse even expect, to get BiS is just silly. Stop setting unrealistic goals and you'll have a much better time playing this game.

It's like me expecting to get a vicious saddle. Do I want one? Hell yes.
Do I expect to get one? Nope. Never going to happen.
Do I want the PvP system changed or removed because I can't get what I want? Of course not (although honestly I would really like a solo rated queue).

And btw, just to explain what kind of player I am;
I am casual in the type of content I choose to do.
I am not casual in the amount of time and work I'm willing (and able) to dedicate to a game.

29/10/2018 21:47Posted by Sebarial

I have stopped doing higher level content and just farming old content for mounts and Tmog now, as I don't feel the drive to try high level content or join a progress guild and I will never get that feeling of getting my full BiS in current tier.

Have unsubbed for now will see if I will resub later once my current game time has run out but probably won't untill TF is gone or fixed to a certain degree.


That's entirely your prerogative.
I don't think it will be removed though. And it's already been fixed (bit too much imo even, but that's a different conversation).

Like I said; the problem you have with TF is entirely created by you yourself.
You can fix that problem by setting your goals just a bit differently. You don't need to have BiS. Baseline item is fine. Why do you need BiS? Explain it to me please, because I seriously don't understand.


You probably never will understand it is just a different mindset of people, some people like to have a set goal of getting the best they can get and it is currently impossible to get in the current state.

The base ilvl of gear means nothing, I get no feeling of joy when it drops and it takes away a major point of what made WoW great for me.

In the past I always enjoyed WoW more then other games because the items were static, you knew what dropped what items and that the items would never change.

You might be right that if we change how we think we would enjoy WoW more but that will not happen so unless it is changed back to how it used to be alot of like minded players will start to leave.
You do not need BiS. You simply don't.

You're such hypocrite. In threads about removing LFR you scream and shout this is your only raiding activity and you don't want it to be removed. Yet, you dare to tell someone "you don't need this" - should I say the same? You don't need to raid - or even better: You don't need titanforging

Pls, at least put yourself in others' shoes when you come with arguments.
30/10/2018 07:32Posted by Verdill
You do not need BiS. You simply don't.

You're such hypocrite. In threads about removing LFR you scream and shout this is your only raiding activity and you don't want it to be removed. Yet, you dare to tell someone "you don't need this" - should I say the same? You don't need to raid - or even better: You don't need titanforging

Pls, at least put yourself in others' shoes when you come with arguments.


First off; Don't call me names please, that's totally uncalled for.

Now then, how can you compare those things?
Raiding is a whole system in this game. A pretty major system at that. It's where the storylines are usually concluded or at least 'big epic events' happen within the storylines.

That's something else completely than wanting some over-the-top thing, like BiS.

You're right, I dont NEED titanforging. But it's a carrot. You know how that works, right? So as long as there is not a different carrot to replace TF, I do want it ingame because it helps keep the game interesting. Do you want people to quit? Do you want WoW to die?

Give a good alternative and maybe you'll change the minds of people who like TF.

But the bottomline is; you really don't need BiS. You can have the desire to get it, but you don't need it. Getting rid of that desire will make you a happier gamer, so why not try to do that? You CAN be happy with less.
Haven't gotten a single titanforged item this expansion so I don't really know.
29/10/2018 21:07Posted by Kamazh
untrue, RNG has existed since the beginning. A boss might simply never drop the piece of loot you in particular want.

And it seems it will take more expansions before people give up on the notions of getting total BIS gear.


Belive most of the player undertand that there will always bee and have been rng in wow. What we dont like is the extra layers of RNG they have added last few expansions.

Only thing left in game that can give you some satisfaction must been beating last boss in mythic raid, top arena rating.

Timegating was better before and more "rewarding". These day we get mad if we dont get "full set" in 3-4 raids or item from x dungoen after a few runs.
I guess some of it comes that even when you get the item it could have been socket and titanforge.

Anyway soon we can griefe and have fun with classic again ;D
30/10/2018 12:06Posted by Tullemusa

Only thing left in game that can give you some satisfaction must been beating last boss in mythic raid, top arena rating.


For a minority of players, yeah maybe.

30/10/2018 12:06Posted by Tullemusa

Timegating was better before and more "rewarding". These day we get mad if we dont get "full set" in 3-4 raids or item from x dungoen after a few runs.
I guess some of it comes that even when you get the item it could have been socket and titanforge.


No. It comes from the fact that a lot of players nowadays are entitled. They want instant gratification. Don't blame a game system for a problem with a whole generation, that's just ridiculous.

30/10/2018 12:06Posted by Tullemusa

Anyway soon we can griefe and have fun with classic again ;D


Enjoy. I'll be staying in the better version of WoW.
29/10/2018 22:01Posted by Gráinne
29/10/2018 21:07Posted by Kamazh
untrue, RNG has existed since the beginning. A boss might simply never drop the piece of loot you in particular want.

True, but there is all the difference in the world between a 1-in-8 drop chance, where the odds are on your side to get what you want while the content is current, and a 1-in-2000 chance, where the odds are very small, and not worth trying for.
29/10/2018 21:07Posted by Kamazh
And it seems it will take more expansions before people give up on the notions of getting total BIS gear.

Alternative formulation: it will take more expansions before people who want to work towards something all leave the game because it is unsatisfying.


1.BIS was not special BIS was for the other special snowflakes .

2.we have been told " WE's DONT RAID FOR GEAR" ......

3.The game isnt tuned for BIS being mandatory

4.BIS items getting dished out like cookies equals a virtual stat template - which equals flat PVP at the top echelons of PVP.

5.The elitists who no longer can easily farm BIS gear would be better to leave the game, the game would be better off community wise without those people.Those hypocritical toxic cherry pickers.Who are now crying that their little platform has been diminshed.

6.AT the hardest echelons of challenging content - the flat minimum loot with a 1/8 chance or whatever , is perfectly accaptable .THe forging is merely a gift, not mandatory.
Yes they do want instant gratification and I blame blizzard for letting that happen.
And the young generation only play wow for a short amount of time before they get borred and move on.
Its only us old farts that sticks around.
...

This is not a real problem.
This is all down to entitlement.
They think they should have that TF proc.
What they don't seem to understand is that it's merely a bonus. A nice extra. Not something to grind out. Not something to expect. Not something you NEED.

It's a nice surprise if it happens. Nothing more.
Don't expect it to happen. Problem solved.


Tahra you just don't understand it does matter.
More so for a casual player ( I myself am a casual player) who only plays a few hours a week.

For a person who only plays a few hours a week it is currently impossible to get your full BiS because of TF. If you say you can still get it by just getting the base ilvl I swear I will scream, that is not BiS, BiS is max ilvl of the best item with best stats for that slot, which currently would be a TF item with socket and 3rd stat.......

I have stopped doing higher level content and just farming old content for mounts and Tmog now, as I don't feel the drive to try high level content or join a progress guild and I will never get that feeling of getting my full BiS in current tier.

Have unsubbed for now will see if I will resub later once my current game time has run out but probably won't untill TF is gone or fixed to a certain degree.
you are the one who is wrong. Blizzard told you people to stop chasing bis and you still cling to it. You are in wrong here. You are not supposed to ever be able to get bis
I really dislike titanforging, so I don't really care about items that much any more. I vividly remember the times in the past when I finally got an item I was after and I felt like I had accomplished something. Nowadays I just loot the item and I don't really care if it's base level or not, and I don't care about sockets even more, since I know that I would have to basically go insane if I started caring about every single item I get.

So the effect that titanforging has had on me is to make me care about items less than before because I know that having BiS gear is like winning the lottery 10 times in a row.
29/10/2018 22:00Posted by Tahra
28/10/2018 19:34Posted by Izila

Ignore it? What? That doesn't even make sense. Sure people can ignore it, it doesn't remove the issues people have with it.


Oh for some of those issues it really would. Like the jealousy thing and such.

28/10/2018 19:34Posted by Izila

"The ilvl bloat is ridiculous, we need a stat squish after every expansion and we've had poor tuning because of TF."


Ilvl bloat doesn't have anything to do with TF. Not a thing.
Ilvl bloat exists because of 2 reasons:

1) the 15 ilvl raise per raid tier
2) having 4 different raid difficulties (so that would be 4x 15 ilvls per raid tier)

28/10/2018 19:34Posted by Izila

Who said anything about progression? I'm not sure why you brought that up, I never mentioned it. I mentioned PL just as another example of things "elitist people" don't like but are forced to deal with regardless.


Yeah but I was talking about things elitist players want changed about the game that would affect EVERYONE. There's no such things from casual players. None.
All the stuff that's purely for casuals, you can ignore/bypass/skip.

You might not be happy with every feature in the game, neither am I, but that doesn't mean its okay to ask for the entire game to be tailored to the way I (or you) play the game. And it's also not okay to blame people who have nothing to do with those features for them.


I see, thanks for elaborating. I still don't agree with some of your points though.

When I mean issues I don't mean reasons like "you don't deserve it", personally I don't really care about the gear other people have.

4 raid difficulties is partially to blame yes, but titanforging plays a role too. Every difficulty needs to be an ilvl difference of 15 ilvls because of titanforging. Items need to be at least able to TF to +15 ilvls, if the gap was smaller it would probably not be worth doing higher difficulties at all because then even a single WF would basically mean the item is on par with a higher difficulty. Normal dungeons reward 305 gear, so they need to be able to TF to +15 at the very least, this means heroic dungeon gear needs to have 325 base ilvl, mythic dungeon 340 and so on. If we didn't have titanforging the ilvls would be static and could be scaled down, hc dungeon gear could have been 315, mythic 325.

Raid gear 335-345-355-365 for example. That's at least 20 ilvls decrease every tier.
No, titanforging and lootboxes ruin the game.

Just LOOK AT ME.
374 equipped and I haven't even done a single Raid Boss.


I only log in to do a Mythic 10 and maybe some Arenas at 1800-2000 MMR, but I have better gear than my friends who are 7/7 x3 in Heroic and progressing Mythic.
Trying their hardest to get the best gear in the game.

Why?
Cause I get lucky from these stupid lootboxes.
385 Shoulders, then 385 Trinket, then 380 Weapon - and oh look my PvP Titanforged 390 boots with Socket [Better than a Gladiator Rating reward].

I seriously don't even care, cause I know at any moment I could do a World Quest and replace those boots or that trinket with a 395 Titanforge.
Cause at no point do I feel like I earn my items.

It all just feels so pointless.
Like I'm a rat in a Skinner box.

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