Azerite reforging response

General
To someone who remembers: wasn't there a cap on the cost of resetting when the old talent trees were a thing?

And wouldn't it be helpful if they just implemented such a cap now for Azerite reforging? Make it cap at 2000g or something?
12/10/2018 12:47Posted by Mahmeya
To someone who remembers: wasn't there a cap on the cost of resetting when the old talent trees were a thing?

And wouldn't it be helpful if they just implemented such a cap now for Azerite reforging? Make it cap at 2000g or something?


That would be a massive step in the right direction.
12/10/2018 12:47Posted by Rezista
12/10/2018 12:41Posted by Tahra
I'll just quote myself here, as a response:

If you want to be 'the best' you will need to put the work in. Simple as that.
If you don't want to put the work in, you don't get to be 'the best'.

Being 'optimal' is not a right. It's a luxury and this luxury comes at a cost.


Nither was having good gear for free, but hey, we got Titanforge.


What? That reply doesn't even make any sense.
What are you trying to say there?

It's a totally unrelated topic with totally unrelated 'symptoms'.
Being 'optimal' is not a right. It's a luxury and this luxury comes at a cost.


Having good gear was not a right, it was a luxury and came at a cost.
What I'm trying to say is that you are a Hypocrite, having red your Titanforge posts.
...

I want to have Azerite globes for playing M+, Gutreaper for progressing on Fetid, Heed my call for Zekvoz and further on Ghuun and Overwhelming power for anything else. I'm not going to sim each one of them, because I already know what each one does and how much it effects me.
In general I see people who are making simming to be this huge time consuming thing, wher every peice of gear to the last stat is individually compared to another. But in reality I know generally which trait is better in most situations.


I'll just quote myself here, as a response:

[quote]If you want to be 'the best' you will need to put the work in. Simple as that.
If you don't want to put the work in, you don't get to be 'the best'.

Being 'optimal' is not a right. It's a luxury and this luxury comes at a cost.


I understand the general idea behind your sentiment, but I don't believe I can agree with your implications. Point being, whatever activity results in higher performance should by design be engaging (we are talking about a game after all). If your optimization depends on who can eat a bowl of glass shards before every encounter, that's not really about being a good player. It's about withstanding an unenjoyable routine, and no solid design should ever encourage a miserable gaming experience as the optimal one.
Tbh I was ok with the answer he gave on the topic. Pick one role that you want to play the most. If you want to off-spec then you won't perform as well for a while, but in time you'll get everything you need to do so.

I'm actually looking forward to the extra ring of spec-only traits. I hope it will increase the chance for some traits to appear, since they won't be on the same table as generic traits on that ring.

I don't recall them mentioning if they were going to buff all the useless traits though. At least they're going to fix the descriptions though, so that's something.
[quote="176234465469"]

I'll reiterate for clarity. Being optimal is not a bad thing, but please try to understand what you'd be asking for. If being "optimal" comes at the expense of spending half your game time swapping traits and resimming, it does not serve healthy sustainability. Even the most dedicated players (especially them) would be burnt out within days.

It's not about gating optimization. It's all about deincentivizing a really, really tedious way to squeeze out optimization.


Putting aside simming and trait swapping and looking purely at the cost of changing things up. Already players are farming up gold (or mats) for enchants/gems/food/flasks/potions/runes/reroll tokens to add to that the escalating cost in gold to respec traits. It's a lot of farming to do in order to participate. Then you then add in spec specific traits that incur a cost per spec change if you want to use the best possible combination from among your gear; surely that is a recipe to burn out those who simply want best performance.
12/10/2018 13:01Posted by Keele
Tbh I was ok with the answer he gave on the topic. Pick one role that you want to play the most. If you want to off-spec then you won't perform as well for a while, but in time you'll get everything you need to do so.

[/quote]
This is where Blizzard are disconnected with the player base. The player base don't want to do anything suboptimal, most groups want to clear the obstacle in front of them and move on to the next thing. Look at the complaints about players using Raider.io or requiring AoTC.
12/10/2018 13:07Posted by Léawyn
This is where Blizzard are disconnected with the player base. The player base don't want to do anything suboptimal, most groups want to clear the obstacle in front of them and move on to the next thing.


And what happens when there's no next thing? Post "There is nothing to do, unsubbing" on the forums? The gear treadmill might not be the most fun thing to do, but is a necessity in an MMO, because there no game studio exists, which can produce content as fast as players consume it.
12/10/2018 12:55Posted by Rezista
Being 'optimal' is not a right. It's a luxury and this luxury comes at a cost.


Having good gear was not a right, it was a luxury and came at a cost.
What I'm trying to say is that you are a Hypocrite, having red your Titanforge posts.


I'm not.
I enjoy titanforge for what it is; a bonus. A carrot on a stick.
I don't demand I get TF procs and come crying on the forums if I don't.
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I'll just quote myself here, as a response:

[quote]If you want to be 'the best' you will need to put the work in. Simple as that.
If you don't want to put the work in, you don't get to be 'the best'.

Being 'optimal' is not a right. It's a luxury and this luxury comes at a cost.


I understand the general idea behind your sentiment, but I don't believe I can agree with your implications. Point being, whatever activity results in higher performance should by design be engaging (we are talking about a game after all). If your optimization depends on who can eat a bowl of glass shards before every encounter, that's not really about being a good player. It's about withstanding an unenjoyable routine, and no solid design should ever encourage a miserable gaming experience as the optimal one.


I get that. And in a perfect world it would be an enjoyable aspect. But it's far from perfect. And to expect a change to occur because you want a luxury, isn't realistic imo.

Yes, the process could be made less painful, but imo, and I'm pretty fantatical in that view point; if you want to be the best, you have to suffer. It doesn't come easy. It's a choice you make. If that choice makes you miserable, you made the wrong choice and maybe should set your goals at a more realistic level.
12/10/2018 13:25Posted by Tahra
Yes, the process could be made less painful, but imo, and I'm pretty fantatical in that view point; if you want to be the best, you have to suffer. It doesn't come easy. It's a choice you make.


I woudn't mind if I was able to farm Azerite gear, but I am not, because it is also gated and is going to continue to be gated, because Ion refuses to put Azerite in M+. So having to spent 160k gold each week on a reforge to be optimal is not really a choise now is it?
12/10/2018 13:25Posted by Tahra


Yes, the process could be made less painful, but imo, and I'm pretty fantatical in that view point; if you want to be the best, you have to suffer. It doesn't come easy. It's a choice you make. If that choice makes you miserable, you made the wrong choice and maybe should set your goals at a more realistic level.

What is the fixation with 'if you want to be the best you have to suffer?

We are talking about a system that is flawed. Gear that has gates on farming. If a player wants to swap roles/specs across different content or wants to play to the best of their ability, should they be punished for it?
12/10/2018 09:56Posted by Sárádá
The thing that baffled me the most is when Ion said that if you don't respec your azerite traits you lose only 1-2% dps.


Kind of begs the question; What was the f*cking point of adding azerite gear in the first place if they were meant to contribute so little.. Ugh, this company..

EVERY 'feature' of this expansion is garbage, for real though.
I really miss my totally flexible works in every spec TIER.
Im not good putting this down in words but
The thing that triggered me and had to watch again today was the part where Ion said said that only a few percent of the player base should play optimally (WF race, M+15)
And that the rest doesnt and shouldn't really care about it, as with less optimal choices i should still make my goal

I'm a very casual player, and to compensate my lack of skills i try to get optimal gear to help my team out. thats how i want to play my game
12/10/2018 14:52Posted by Noctus

I'm a very casual player, and to compensate my lack of skills i try to get optimal gear to help my team out. thats how i want to play my game

You've just summed up better than I could my biggest argument against the system. I have limited skill and play with a lot of players with restrictions to their ability to play. For them being able to squeeze out as much performance from their gear allows them to feel as they are contributing to the group. I really believe that Blizzard have overlooked this.
12/10/2018 14:52Posted by Noctus
Im not good putting this down in words but
The thing that triggered me and had to watch again today was the part where Ion said said that only a few percent of the player base should play optimally (WF race, M+15)
And that the rest doesnt and shouldn't really care about it, as with less optimal choices i should still make my goal

I'm a very casual player, and to compensate my lack of skills i try to get optimal gear to help my team out. thats how i want to play my game
He meant that being optimal wasn't necessary, but that doesn't mean you can't be optimal. Just pick a role and focus all your traits on being the best you can at that role.

But if you want to be optimal in every spec, every role and every situation then that's going to take more time. However, he did also say that they were increasing the frequency of drops and ways to get azerite gear, so it might not be so bad gearing off-specs after all.

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