Feral doing less dps on the PTR build.

Druid
Just logged off the new PTR build. Every bleed still doing less dps on the PTR than on live.

I really do hope they tune this, we're already garbage on the live version, we need a proper buff, not nerfs. Also they seem to buff something and then nerf something else so it really doesn't improve the state we're on and we keep on the same spot.

With the datamined reports of an 8% dps aura increase on most abilities I had hoped we would become competitive for m+ but now I'm not too sure, a couple of classes/specs are doing crazy damage for m+ and we don't get even get invited.

The new aoe talent (Primal Wrath) is good but it's not optimal to spam it as a finisher even in an aoe scenario and from what I tested it seems the best thing to do is to use a couple FB's between each Primal Wrath usage. The issue is that on the PTR we are still too energy starved to keep this rotation because they buff our base energy regen but then take away our haste bonus (they keep giving something but taking something else) so you won't really notice an improvement in energy regen and even the reworked SR is not significant enough to make an impact regen wise. So even though the new aoe talent is better than what we had before it still won't allow us to compete with other classes.

If 8.1 was to go live this moment we would be doing less single target dps than on live and better aoe dps (but still worst than the majority of classes). I really do hope they give us a bit more than this or we will probably keep getting declined to run m+.

For pvp, making us choose between LI and ST is also quite disappointing, the new ST rework is also a nerf that I don't really think was warranted, sounds like the devs just don't want ferals to shine in any form currently.
Yeah the nerf to pvp damage is ginormous, I kind of smell a change in feral playstyle or something with the reintroduction of cyclone. I wonder if multidotting will be less prevalent without the current ST?
Yes, PTR Feral is around 2-4k less DPS on single target (depending on whether you spec Lunar Insp on live or not). But with Primal Wrath, you GAIN 2k DPS on AoE.

And yes, the Druid developer is brain dead.
Remember when they added Claws of Shirvallah in WoD? And power-shifting was a thing? Feral no longer had any clunkiness to it and PLAYED like a NORMAL class/spec. It felt really, really good. Then they took it away.
Remember in Legion when we had legendaries which gave us 100 energy + regen? when our head piece prolonged the duration of tiger's fury? when they outright FIXED the Blood Talons, which so many seem to have issues with by allowing it to stack to 3 with the boot legendary? Or they helped our energy maintenance with the SOTF ring? Then they took it all away.
I could go on to talk about Mists and Wrath, too, Feral has been 'fixed' MULTIPLE times, then broken again because the developer has the IQ of a chimp.
07/11/2018 10:07Posted by Nooóo
Yes, PTR Feral is around 2-4k less DPS on single target (depending on whether you spec Lunar Insp on live or not). But with Primal Wrath, you GAIN 2k DPS on AoE.

And yes, the Druid developer is brain dead.
Remember when they added Claws of Shirvallah in WoD? And power-shifting was a thing? Feral no longer had any clunkiness to it and PLAYED like a NORMAL class/spec. It felt really, really good. Then they took it away.
Remember in Legion when we had legendaries which gave us 100 energy + regen? when our head piece prolonged the duration of tiger's fury? when they outright FIXED the Blood Talons, which so many seem to have issues with by allowing it to stack to 3 with the boot legendary? Or they helped our energy maintenance with the SOTF ring? Then they took it all away.
I could go on to talk about Mists and Wrath, too, Feral has been 'fixed' MULTIPLE times, then broken again because the developer has the IQ of a chimp.

Tbh this doesn't apply to feral only, but to all specs, perhaps all classes though I haven't played all.
This going backwards was really the worse thing ever done by Blizzard.
07/11/2018 21:36Posted by Sariath
07/11/2018 10:07Posted by Nooóo
Yes, PTR Feral is around 2-4k less DPS on single target (depending on whether you spec Lunar Insp on live or not). But with Primal Wrath, you GAIN 2k DPS on AoE.

And yes, the Druid developer is brain dead.
Remember when they added Claws of Shirvallah in WoD? And power-shifting was a thing? Feral no longer had any clunkiness to it and PLAYED like a NORMAL class/spec. It felt really, really good. Then they took it away.
Remember in Legion when we had legendaries which gave us 100 energy + regen? when our head piece prolonged the duration of tiger's fury? when they outright FIXED the Blood Talons, which so many seem to have issues with by allowing it to stack to 3 with the boot legendary? Or they helped our energy maintenance with the SOTF ring? Then they took it all away.
I could go on to talk about Mists and Wrath, too, Feral has been 'fixed' MULTIPLE times, then broken again because the developer has the IQ of a chimp.

Tbh this doesn't apply to feral only, but to all specs, perhaps all classes though I haven't played all.
This going backwards was really the worse thing ever done by Blizzard.


The question remains though, even if most classes get their dps output lowered where does that leave ferals? Will we be competitive to play pve or keep getting declined over warriors, rogues, etc?

Lowering some classes output may be fine, but we are already at the bottom currently so lowering our output even more means we won't leave the bottom.
We are simply at the mercy of a developer who doesn't know how to play the spec.
Bring back Claws of Shirvallah baseline, make something similar to it on Bear, so they can use their utility without shifting (like, really, you don't need 100 IQ for this one Blizz).
Boomkin can cast regrowth without shifting, Cat and Bear can't, so spare us your bull!@#$ statement about "Druid lore is about shapeshifting tho!!1" Monks, Paladins, you don't see them with this problem and THEY have better tool-kits?!

As for the numbers and the output, this needs work and without having access to a test realm, I'm unable to do your job for you (meaning it's never going to get fixed). All I can do is suggest the OBVIOUS here.
what is the reason feral is doing less ST dps on the ptr?
We have 4 Rows on "Live" influencing on Single Target.

On "PTR" we have only "3,5" with Brutal Slash the only ability on the new "AoE-Row" that relates to Single Target.

So everything is more pressed without getting anything baseline.
We still suffer from not having 5 DPS-Talent-Rows.

Auto-Attack is too high on Single Target on "PTR": usually second place after Ferocious Bite with ~17% overall.
=> This means, our Bleeds are too low, especially Rip.

Still missing Max Energy raise up and Energy regain mechanics (Soul of the Forest baseline would be a beginning), Omen of Clarity is not controlable.
Every bleed is doing less damage in the PTR, that's my current beef along with energy regen still being low.

Also on live I play with Jagged Wounds which has been removed in the PTR and I personally haven't found a way to compensate for that dps loss yet.

09/11/2018 13:18Posted by Nuvic
what is the reason feral is doing less ST dps on the ptr?


Poor bleed damage from new formulas or whatever they did to lower the damage and the loss of Jagged Wounds. Buffed FB and Shred does't make up for the bleed losses and bad energy regen.

I just hope the devs find the proper tuning to our numbers if they don't have the resources currently to redesign (they already redesigned stuff that was working and loved by the playerbased and broken it and changed it for whatever god knows reasons). We have a lot of downtime due poor energy regen so our abilities/bleeds just need their coefficients increased rather than decreased. Give us proper numbers in line with other classes.
Bleed dmg was already relatively low. what are they thinking? I was hoping to go feral for pure ST fights...
09/11/2018 14:26Posted by Bekrynn
We have 4 Rows on "Live" influencing on Single Target.

On "PTR" we have only "3,5" with Brutal Slash the only ability on the new "AoE-Row" that relates to Single Target.

So everything is more pressed without getting anything baseline.
We still suffer from not having 5 DPS-Talent-Rows.

Auto-Attack is too high on Single Target on "PTR": usually second place after Ferocious Bite with ~17% overall.
=> This means, our Bleeds are too low, especially Rip.

Still missing Max Energy raise up and Energy regain mechanics (Soul of the Forest baseline would be a beginning), Omen of Clarity is not controlable.


This might be a valid explanation - but only if the devs are not balancing the different specs.

I !@#$ing hope they are!
It's difficult to explain why the single target damage is lower on PTR. But I attribute it to a few things:
- Blood scent is gone, 10% crit helped massively
- Lunar Inspiration is no longer viable as Sabertooth grants higher DPS
- Jagged Wounds is gone (...)
- Our 'hidden haste bonus' has dropped from 25% to 0%, yet somehow Haste still remains the dominant stat.
If like me you thought "well, haste is NOT going to be so important now, it'll be either crit or mastery!" you're wrong.
21% Crit, 27% Haste, 31% Mastery, 4% Versa
versus
27% Crit, 8% Haste, 55% Mastery, 7% Versa
Which do you think yields higher DPS? If you guessed the first one, the haste build, you'd be right. Even though Ferocious Bite was technically buffed as it's now integrated into Feral mastery, it makes absolutely no difference. Haste > everything.

Now this isn't a personal issue for me but I'd like to remind the Feral community that it will become harder to play properly compared to the current, casual cat. You have a lot more counter intuitive decisions to make and more general maintenance on your bleeds/buffs.
Feral abilities are so weak and energy regen so low that autoattack does so much of the dmg, even more so on the PTR?
09/11/2018 23:58Posted by Nooóo
Now this isn't a personal issue for me but I'd like to remind the Feral community that it will become harder to play properly compared to the current, casual cat. You have a lot more counter intuitive decisions to make and more general maintenance on your bleeds/buffs.


Harder to play for an even smaller reward in the form of even more mediocre dps.

Also thanks for pointing out about Blood Scent I forgot that one.

All in all it's still PTR and they may apply better tuning before it goes live, I just wouldn't get my hopes up at this point.

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