Bring Back the Old talents tree

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Ghost explained back in the day that the choices with the old talents tree are always narrowed to 2-3 cookie cutter builds and one or two fun-builds !!

Well the situation is much worse from my pov today as at most you have one build with one row to change from cleave/aoe to ST per spec.

And i can't even call this a build as you don't have the freedom to the empowering level you want from each talent, because no points system and no multibranching.

Of course cross-spec have to stay if they ever bring it back as it gives the most interesting depth to the system.

I can't find any person who can explain why the actual one is better expect for the devs to easily balance classes which in end of the day is not a goal itself rather than a journey while the ultimate goal is "fun".

Feel free to upvote if you agree for visibility hope (i know EU forums have little to no chance in that regards but can't post in US :( )

Feel also free to explain why if you disagree.

PS : the actual Talent system also killed hybrid classes o blizzard have no choice than make them OP or otherwise they are useless for guilds or have zero fun on them, but this is not a solution.
the old talent tree was a cookie cutter build, the only slightly good thing with it was you could make more hybrid builds on some classes, but if you wanted to be optimal you really had only one set of choices. the game doesn't need the old talent tree system back
Do you actually realise WHEN the old system was removed?
09/11/2018 09:25Posted by Dottie
Do you actually realise WHEN the old system was removed?


I do and also when it was nerfed in Cata !! this is why i called it OLD :)
09/11/2018 09:21Posted by Nithsethel
the old talent tree was a cookie cutter build, the only slightly good thing with it was you could make more hybrid builds on some classes, but if you wanted to be optimal you really had only one set of choices. the game doesn't need the old talent tree system back


This is exactly what i said and not everyone had to be 'optimal' in theory to have a good performance.

But how the actual system is better addressing those points?
And how the actual one is better addressing those points?

He is that typical guy who repeats whatever he reads. The new ones solves nothing. In fact they are killing the sense of progress which is a MAJOR RPG element.
09/11/2018 09:21Posted by Nithsethel
the old talent tree was a cookie cutter build, the only slightly good thing with it was you could make more hybrid builds on some classes, but if you wanted to be optimal you really had only one set of choices. the game doesn't need the old talent tree system back
The current game also has cookie cutter builds. If you think it doesn't, you're probably playing poorly (which is fine, that's your choice, but you could do that in the old trees too)

The other "slightly" good thing about it is it gave you a point every (second) level which kept you feeling like your character got stronger as it levelled up, unlike today where you literally level down when you ding (everything scales up with your primary stats so it feels the same to fight it, and you lose secondary stats)
The mage talent trees were great back in the day. I always had fun messing around with new specs to see what i could come up with. But, i never found cookie cutter builds that interesting - in PVP, it was much more fun having a weird build with surprises in it, because your opponents didnt know how to handle it :)

Hybrid builds in particular were great fun.

The current talent system is kinda boring, tbh.
The excuse of "the old system was too cookie cutter" was shtaco then and still is.

People still look on websites for the "optimum" build but people like me that liked to have some customisation options via a wider range of talents (and later on Glyphs) could have fun too.

All that getting rid of the old talent system and active glyphs did was remove those customisation options but left cookie cutter builds in place.

As a change to the game it failed completely.
I had WAY more fun with the old trees than with the new one. The new one is bland, uninteresting, and doesn't even feel like part of my character or class. It's just a tab with three choices per tier (per ten levels or less), of which one or two are viable and the other choices are utter rubbish. There's even tiers that offer nothing but 'movement utility', a kind of utility that used to be baked into my class!

After playing the WoW Classic demo I'm more convinced than ever that they should cut the crap and bring back the old talent trees. Because even in the 'cookie cutter builds', the ones considered optimal for raiding, there were individual choices you could make that'd give you the freedom to tweak your character just how you wanted it.

There's also the fact that now, with more progression paths (raiding/mythic plus/pvp) being viable, it wouldn't be as clear cut which tree would be the best for every given situation, which meant that hybrid classes would probably be viable again as well. I loved having a guildie who could play a MOONKIN TANK, or being able to spec into restoration for a few talents to be a good supportive healer even while dps'ing. I also miss how mana is meaningless to practically every class apart from healers; what's even the point of having it as a dps?

No, that demo made me realize that WoW has lost something along the way, and that they should try to bring back that feeling of accomplishment and sense of wonder that I felt again when playing Classic. No sparkling quest items, no blue areas on the map to tell you where to go... it felt invigorating to play like that again.
This talent system is poor , i play 9 classes, at most classes there is a universal talent build especially for pve . Looks like dumbing down talent system .

This is the worst talent system. I picked my talents at the start of BFA ( on my bm hunter ) didn't do 1 click so far to change any of them ?

What's the point of having a system that literally doesn't requires u to change them at most classes/specs ?
The main reason the old trees disapeared was for balancing classes if I recal it. The thing is, personally I don't really care if classes are perfectly balanced. I still would prefer the old system where you had some creative freedom to spec your char. Sure, if you wanted the highest numbers in prestanda you were still locked to a specific specc but not everyone cares about numbers. Also, if you wanted to top the dmg meters in vanilla you had to be either mage or rogue, nothing else could really compete. I much rather have the creative freedom to make my own rotation and a hybrid that I like to play and which is fun to me gameplay-wise.
no, we need a NEW functional system, like Nithsethel said, when it comes down to numbers as this game does you are tied to what works best, talent trees are fine for games like ElderScrolls, where you can be what you want to be, but here?..wrong talents..size 9 boot..:p
09/11/2018 10:30Posted by Lohsa
no, we need a NEW functional system, like Nithsethel said, when it comes down to numbers as this game does you are tied to what works best, talent trees are fine for games like ElderScrolls, where you can be what you want to be, but here?..wrong talents..size 9 boot..:p


The game is supposed to be an RPG like ES not an e-sport number crushing system
i know, that's what i mean..:)
i agree with Elehoof, getting rid of abilities and talents for the sake of balance is horrible..so they need to start again from the ground up..somehow i don't think they will though, we all know games have been going 'press button A for awesome' for some time now...:(
09/11/2018 09:58Posted by Elehoofe
The main reason the old trees disapeared was for balancing classes if I recal it. The thing is, personally I don't really care if classes are perfectly balanced. I still would prefer the old system where you had some creative freedom to spec your char. Sure, if you wanted the highest numbers in prestanda you were still locked to a specific specc but not everyone cares about numbers. Also, if you wanted to top the dmg meters in vanilla you had to be either mage or rogue, nothing else could really compete. I much rather have the creative freedom to make my own rotation and a hybrid that I like to play and which is fun to me gameplay-wise.
The most balanced expansion was and continues to be WotLK, especially in a PvP context.

Cata didn't do bad in PvE either, but unfortunately PvP was pretty busted.

So... yeah. It's totally possible to balance those talent trees just fine.

I guess the biggest problem is that the original system implies trees that have up to 91pt talents, i.e. 19 tiers deep, and you'll have 111 talent points. That sounds kindda stupid, but then again 120 levels is also stupid.
I liked the system introduced with Legion (even if you had to build 3 weapons).

The Azeroth's heart is realy not that exciting. Tired to have 3 stuffs because Azerite traits.
09/11/2018 09:21Posted by Nithsethel
the old talent tree was a cookie cutter build, the only slightly good thing with it was you could make more hybrid builds on some classes, but if you wanted to be optimal you really had only one set of choices. the game doesn't need the old talent tree system back
The current one is also cookie cutter build, everything is
I prefer the current talents to the old passive, mostly dmg increase talents. So not only they weren't interesting but also that type of tree doesn't have sustainability. Because the new talents added with each expansion aren't there because the devs had some great ideas, but because they have to expand the tree so the new additions are mostly already existing talents with a small twist.

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