Survival should be a tank!

Hunter
Because when is the last time you've heard a raid or party leader say 'Boy, we really could use a survival hunter, and definitely not a ranged hunter!'. Never? Me neither, and arguably for good reason.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy the melee aspect to the hunter. Played one in vanilla, remember throwing out occasional the raptor strikes and mongoose bites.
I'm not one to advocate for a third ranged spec.

However currently survival competes with two strong mobile ranged specs, making it unappealing. Maybe it shouldn't compete, Maybe it could be something else, like a tank spec. I know devs have played with the idea before in the past, we don't yet have a mail tank, and the name kind of fits don't you think. :)

Before you call me crazy, have a read!

Raptor Strike
Instant Melee range
A vicious slash, dealing x physical damage
and 50% to up to two nearby targets.

Mongoose Bite
Instant Melee range
A swift counter attack, dealing x physical damage.
Usable after performing a dodge.
Generates 20 focus.

Serpent Sting
10 Focus 30yd range
Instant 16 sec cooldown
Fire a poison-tipped arrow at an enemy, dealing
x nature damage instantly and y nature damage over
10 seconds. Heal for half the damage over time
dealt.

Spirit Bond
Passive
All damage taken is shared evenly between you
and your active pets.
All healing received is shared between you and
your primary pet.

Dire Beast
50 focus 30 yd range
Instant
Summons a powerful wild beast to aid you in combat.
Cannot be the target of healing, and flees the fight
upon losing all health.

Because dire beasts dying left and right would be animal cruelty.
Max 3 active dire beasts. Summoning additional replaces the oldest
summoned.

Mastery: Dire Fortitude
Passive
Increases the health of your dire summons by x%mastery.
Additionally increases your attack power by y%mastery.

Flanking Strike
30 focus Melee range
Instant
You and your active pet strike a target as one,
dealing x physical damage both. Dire beasts also deal
x/3 physical damage.
Additionally reduce the cooldown of Wildfire Bomb by 1s
for each attacking pet

Wildfire Bomb
40 yd range
Instant 18 sec recharge
Hurl a bomb at the target, exploding for x fire damage
in a cone and coating enemies in wildfire, scorching
them or y fire damage over 6 sec
Additionally has one of three enhancements for its duration.
Max 2 charges.

Smoke Bomb: All targets struck have an extra 30%
chance to have their attacks dodged.
Pheromone Bomb: Dire Beast costs 20 less focus
on targets coated with pheromones.
Volatile Bomb: Reacts violently with poison,
consuming any active Serpent's Sting and healing
you for x instantly and y over time.

Dragonscale Reinforcement
Passive
Increases your armor by x% and additionally by y% agility.
Reduces magic damage taken by 10%.

Distracting Shot
8-30yd range Instant
Fire a shot at your target, dealing x physical
damage. Causes high threat.

Finally on pet behavior, pets will attempt to stand next to the hunter instead of behind their target; to sell the fantasy of going into battle with a pack of wild animals at their side.

So basically the spec fantasy is to be this rugged pack leader standing up to their mighty prey together with their pets.
Your primary pet is for all intents and purposes an extension of your own health bar.
Active mitigation is essentially spreading damage across expendable beast summons. For their duration dire beasts reduce damage taken by you and your main pet by 33% 50% 60% for 1 2 and 3 active dire beasts respectively.
Throw in some extra armor, dodge and moderate self sustain and we have ourselves a tank.

What do you guys think? Sounds like something you could play? Let me know!
Nice, these forums delete all my carefully placed tabs for formatting. Egh, still readable enough right?
Love the idea of a tank spec in hunter so we stop being a pure dps class, which i consider hindered.

Maybe Bm could fill that spot better thou.
you know that pet Ai is broken for years. imagine now a tank hunter with a pet wich is stuck in a doorway midde in raid. I bet people gonna love it
I will call you once our raid leader says "boy it sure would be great to have more dps warriors" and not "more mdps/rdps" in general
Because changing a spec fundamentally was a great idea the first time around im sure this would be another great idea
13/11/2018 10:11Posted by Narakamos
Love the idea of a tank spec in hunter so we stop being a pure dps class, which i consider hindered.

Maybe Bm could fill that spot better thou.

I agree! Initial idea is what if we redo beast master (I"m not a huge BM fan) but in the end this is not a great idea. You'd have to take a sledgehammer to a well established functional spec a lot of players have come to love and rely on over a long time. Survival on the other hand can't seem to find it's niche.

13/11/2018 12:52Posted by Taigertraps
I will call you once our raid leader says "boy it sure would be great to have more dps warriors" and not "more mdps/rdps" in general

I'm not sure I understand. dps war is generally in high demand due to battle shout and having very good execute. Maybe I misread.
13/11/2018 13:59Posted by Felsi
13/11/2018 10:11Posted by Narakamos
Love the idea of a tank spec in hunter so we stop being a pure dps class, which i consider hindered.

Maybe Bm could fill that spot better thou.

I agree! Initial idea is what if we redo beast master (I"m not a huge BM fan) but in the end this is not a great idea. You'd have to take a sledgehammer to a well established functional spec a lot of players have come to love and rely on over a long time. Survival on the other hand can't seem to find it's niche.

13/11/2018 12:52Posted by Taigertraps
I will call you once our raid leader says "boy it sure would be great to have more dps warriors" and not "more mdps/rdps" in general

I'm not sure I understand. dps war is generally in high demand due to battle shout and having very good execute. Maybe I misread.

Well maybe I will hear "we need a warr tank" though... Oh wait... Its the second worst tank atm
How about we stop messing around with Survival now that is in a decent and very much playable state, hmm?
It could work, the thing is i would love more support specs in game, even if it means adding brand new specs to class instead of adding more and more repetitive classes where they cant even keep up with the balancing.
Until the pishpoor pet AI is fixed it cannot be considered an option. I think there is more scope to screw up as a Hunter tank. I remember Hunters playing off-tank in ICC and that was fun and all, but I feel that pets have only become worse since those days - BFA being the worst I have experienced.
Survival tank? When they cant even make MM a dps-spec?
13/11/2018 16:26Posted by Aldru
How about we stop messing around with Survival now that is in a decent and very much playable state, hmm?


Yes it is decent and playable, but the same could be said about legion survival hunter (played it a fair bit) which performed pretty well with the right stat balance. Didn't stop it from being unpopular and needing a remake.
BFA survival is better in design, but you must still ask yourself the question why would you bring survival if you can bring BM. Numbers change, but the drawbacks of having to go melee over mobile range stays the same.

14/11/2018 13:41Posted by Terapeuten
Survival tank? When they cant even make MM a dps-spec?


MM changes are coming, praise be! :D
4th spec anyone?

All pure dps classes should have another role at this point or all the utility hybrids bring.

Im testing other classes in both pve and pvp and man, there are some classes out there that fit any job anytime, so versatile that returning to my hunter hurts some times.
legion survival hunter (played it a fair bit) which performed pretty well with the right stat balance. Didn't stop it from being unpopular and needing a remake.
Required a remake due to how clunky it was to play compared to both MM and BM at the time, BFA surv is in a much better place gameplay wise compared to our first melee iteration of Legion.
Admittedly it did get better towards the end, but not on the point where we are now, which you admit in your seceond paragraph.

BFA survival is better in design, but you must still ask yourself the question why would you bring survival if you can bring BM. Numbers change, but the drawbacks of having to go melee over mobile range stays the same.
Same can be said throughout the expantions, why bring X when Y does different? And frankly, unless you do Cutting Edge content which majority doesn't, it won't matter.
Want to play MM? Go ahead, you can pull numbers with the right traits. Want to play easy mode and argueably best specc? Go BM and carry your raid to victory.

The differences between the speccs are quite minor at this point, one specc falls behind due to boss and specc designs clashing and that's about it. Play what you want or what your raid requires, it's just that simple.
Survival being a tank spec not only would create more diversity but also would make much more sense than dps.
Reasons are historical:
what is a bm? a hunter that will provide food for a village, having a companion for tracking prey or chasing them helps a lot.
what is a mm? military, soldier trained with a bow, no need for a pet because no chasing other soldiers.
what is a sv? haha, not that easy. they would be a bm suddenly facing a big angry bear, so what to do then? your tiny dog wont help much, its crushed with a single accidental step, your bow wont even tickle. so you pick up the longest and most sturdy thing you can grab that second (staff/polearm in game terms) and just try to keep it out of striking range, stay alive at all cost until a lot of people are around to either scare or kill the beast.

have fun ;)
I enjoy the melee hunter spec that survival is, after legion it's been refined some and does decent enough damage. I doubt they'd go so far to make a dps spec a tank, and if they did I'd think shaman would make the obvious choice more so then hunter

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