Is Activision “exploiting players” mechanic in Wow?

General
So of you might know the controversy about the Activision (and EA) algorithm that analyzed players and how to get the most money out of them (through microtransactions and stuff)

Short example: If you as a player would buy some weapon from shop for real money, the matchmaking would match you with weaker players on map that the weapon you bought is more useful, so you would feel like you did the right thing buying it so you would want to buy more.

You can read about it on internet, for example here: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/10/17/activision-patented-matchmaking-algorithm-designed-make-spend-money/

Bah.. if you want closer example, take a look at google and how they pray with advertisement on you :P

And that gets me to wonder. Does Blizzard use the similar algorithm for their players?

It probably is based more on maximizing the play time and subscriptions, but can also be based on buying things from store. The more I think about it the more convinced I am that there is something like that in place. That’s why the whole RNG aspect of getting loot. They say it’s true RNG but is it though? It’s not hard to fudge it so the player that is less likely to quit can gain some incentive to stay one more month or more – and they still can say, that it is just RNG. Ow hell, they know when somebody subs end, so they if the person is still playing till the end they can manipulate her to re-sub.

What do you guys thing about it?
The gearing system is borderline loot box scam, but instead for paying upfront, we do month by month, and recieve loot boxes week by week.
17/10/2018 09:38Posted by Rezista
The gearing system is borderline loot box scam, but instead for paying upfront, we do month by month, and recieve loot boxes week by week.


So if they remove the weekly chest the problem would be solved?
This is nothing new, of course they will use what some call "underhand methods" to keep customers. It is no different for example to supermarkets that regularly change their shelves around so customers have to walk around the shop and be "exposed" to other products.

Sub rewards such as the ship, daily login rewards (in other games), double xp weekends and the like are all parts of the same system and all mmos whether subscription based or ftp use the same things to keep the money rolling in.

The greedier companies (looking at you EA) will push it to see how far they can go with purchased DLC before players and sometimes legal challenges push back.

"Don't do it Anakin, I have purchased the high ground booster pack"
17/10/2018 09:40Posted by Gannet
17/10/2018 09:38Posted by Rezista
The gearing system is borderline loot box scam, but instead for paying upfront, we do month by month, and recieve loot boxes week by week.


So if they remove the weekly chest the problem would be solved?

No he/she means that the gearing system being so random is what is supposed to make people keep on subbing and playing until they get the gear they want because they won't be fulfilled until then, which you don't know when (if) it'll (ever) happen. It's similar to the donkey dragged by the carrot.

But the funny thing about it is that it seems to have the opposite effect : people are quitting because of it.
They're definitely doing something to push people into micro transactions.

This expansion gold income is significantly less than what it was in Legion, both WQs and Mission tables give you significantly less than it did before, in addition they've added tons of 350 boes which can warforge/titanforge. The economy hasn't adapted to these changes and things are still extremely overpriced.

If this isn't a blatant attempt to make people buy WoW tokens I don't know what is.
17/10/2018 09:40Posted by Gannet
So if they remove the weekly chest the problem would be solved?


Yup, remove loot chests, remove Titanforge, let people target their gear. Let every boss in M+ drop an item from its item pool, instead of having 3 items from all bosses drop at the end of the dungeon, if you are scared of people leaving M+, just drop as many items as bosses there are in the dungeon at the end, pooled from each individual boss, instead of having 5 garbage bracers drop from the same one. Or return badge vendors, pool all the gear from all the Dungeons into one vendor that you can trade for badges. Or if you are so afraid of people farming the living hell out of that, not that you should care, because "play at your own pace" garbage should mean exactly that, but instead it is transalted - play at your own pace, as long as you do not play too much, then we will gate you, give people a token once a week to buy one item from any dungeon with it.

I'm so sick of not getting the item I aim for, because it is gated by 9000 layers of RNG, just to keep me subbed for longer. Like I'd quit the game if I get my bis gear.
17/10/2018 09:47Posted by Rezista
17/10/2018 09:40Posted by Gannet
So if they remove the weekly chest the problem would be solved?


Yup, remove loot chests, remove Titanforge, let people target their gear. Let every boss in M+ drop an item from its item pool, instead of having 3 items from all bosses drop at the end of the dungeon, if you are scared of people leaving M+, just drop as many items as bosses there are in the dungeon at the end, pooled from each individual boss, instead of having 5 garbage bracers drop from the same one. Or return badge vendors, pool all the gear from all the Dungeons into one vendor that you can trade for badges. Or if you are so afraid of people farming the living hell out of that, not that you should care, because "play at your own pace" garbage should mean exactly that, but instead it is transalted - play at your own pace, as long as you do not play too much, then we will gate you, give people a token once a week to buy one item from any dungeon with it.

I'm so sick of not getting the item I aim for, because it is gated by 9000 layers of RNG, just to keep me subbed for longer. Like I'd quit the game if I get my bis gear.


That’s right.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Bis slot gear and working towards it. Player’s knew their endgame, they knew it won’t be easy, and it will take some luck, but they saw it there. It was an actual place that players could get to. And it was so much more fulfilling getting there. Now this place is nowhere to be seen, and RNG is the ruler.

That’s why I more convinced there is some scummy thing going on inside. That can be why they don’t make currency anymore, because it will invalidate the whole algorithm.
They are not selling extra weekly chest rolls for money...YET!
17/10/2018 09:47Posted by Rezista


I'm so sick of not getting the item I aim for, because it is gated by 9000 layers of RNG, just to keep me subbed for longer. Like I'd quit the game if I get my bis gear.


your gear always has been gated behind multiple layers of rng just not as obvious as it is now.

Do I get the right dungeon in LFG? RNG
Does the boss drop the item I want? RNG
Does someone else roll "need" a risk rather than RNG

If you get all your BiS azerite armour in 3 weeks what else are you going to do besides come here to complain about lack of content for high iL players?

The only way Blizz will be able to deal with that is release all the planned dungeons and raids for this expansion and those will be facerolled in another few weeks and thats it for the expansion.

They won't be able to make those raids with the difficulty of earlier expansions otherwise players will be here complaining about gating their BiS behind difficulty walls and that their subscription entitles them access to that loot the same as anyone else. You only have to look at the shizzstorm around the Cataclysm Heroic dungeons when they came out to see that.

What is YOUR suggestion to keep players subbing until the next expansion and the wheel grinds round again? and I mean actual suggestions not just pie in the sky "make meaningful content" or "make it better" lines.
17/10/2018 09:47Posted by Rezista
I'm so sick of not getting the item I aim for, because it is gated by 9000 layers of RNG, just to keep me subbed for longer. Like I'd quit the game if I get my bis gear.


Well that's interesting, what exactly would you do after getting your BiS gear? because from all your posts this looks to be the main reason you play the game and you explicitly said that's the end-goal of WoW.
17/10/2018 09:42Posted by Henoriel
No he/she means that the gearing system being so random is what is supposed to make people keep on subbing and playing until they get the gear they want because they won't be fulfilled until then, which you don't know when (if) it'll (ever) happen. It's similar to the donkey dragged by the carrot.


i envy my guildmate who is also a demon hunter, but with 380 weapons and he's never even run orbs on g'huun.
my sub is running out, if i finally get a trinket drop i would believe you are onto something.
17/10/2018 10:08Posted by Éldelgas
my sub is running out, if i finally get a trinket drop i would believe you are onto something.

Hmm, makes me wonder more if they somehow keep tabs on what you say in game and use it in their algorithm?

“If this item doesn’t drop for me in next chest I’m quitting this expansion”
Algorithm: Interesting.
17/10/2018 10:02Posted by Dommina
What is YOUR suggestion to keep players subbing until the next expansion and the wheel grinds round again? and I mean actual suggestions not just pie in the sky "make meaningful content" or "make it better" lines.


Remove the random upgrades, make difficulty reflect on the gear. Pool every dungeon loot into a vendor and give players once a week the change to pick one item from it.
Remove the loto loot chests at the end of M+ and let every boss drop an individual piece of loot from its own one at the end of the dungeon. Put sockets back into rings and trinkets.
Make professions viable, let bosses in dungeons and raids drop relevant gear recepiece. Meke rare crafting materials come from gathering professions. Remove the soulbound restriction of explosium or remove the whole thing.
Make secondary professions viable, as well as revamping them. Archeology having sweet armor and weapon skins would ne great. Fishing should be a mini game, instead of having it on the second monitor and clicking the mouse when hearing the sound of a fish catch. Make rare fishes spawn across the world, not just in the new zone. Hell make all professions have their mats spawn across the world.
Make exploring better. Treasure chests should have actual treasures instead of 7 war resourses and a scrappy grey item.
Make leveling better paced. Also make so people can level anywhere they want from level 1.
Make Exepeditions not be solo focused on grinding azerite. The way they are designed is flawed.
Make warfronts 20v20 pvp. Make the Pve Warfronts actually challenging and have better rewards. You can not loose a WF, this is a horrible design!
Balance your classes. Rogues mass stealth is so powerful in high M+ that you CAN NOT do them without one. The class balance hasn't been so bad since Classic WoW.
Bring back PvP gear.

17/10/2018 10:06Posted by Gannet
Well that's interesting, what exactly would you do after getting your BiS gear?


Put the gear in use and race for rank 1s.
These complaints are so ignorant, and born from the opposite issue: that people have geared up too easily.

Loot has _always_ been RNG. You can target your loot now, just as you always could.

The chest is just an added bonus, to help players catch up over time to those doing higher level content. There's no conspiracy there. No ill intent. Just a desire to close the gap between players at different skill levels, with a more "exciting" system than the work-for-currency system that we'd have with tokens.

Now, it can be discussed wether luck-based chests are better than grind-based tokens, but either way it wouldn't change the fact that the system would be, and would have to be, built for not giving players max loot in no time.

Do you guys ever read the "there is nothing to do" complaints? I bet at least some of you even write them. They are usually using the "there are no upgrades I can get, anywhere" argument.

So which is it, should they deck us out in BiS quickly, to not have us run their "treadmill", or have gearing take time to not have us run out of things to do? They are trying to find a middle ground.

But they can only lose with this community.
17/10/2018 10:22Posted by Kohanthel
Loot has _always_ been RNG. You can target your loot now, just as you always could.


Please stop making the 8% drop from a boss in Wrath the same as 0.00008% perfect Titanforge with socket in BFA. Also, please explain to me how do I target the Azerite chest from Underrot above 340 item level?
hello this is jackas.. I mean BlizzarD!!

welcome to our elite slot-machine casino, please make sure to spend mone... good time!
17/10/2018 10:17Posted by Rezista
Put the gear in use and race for rank 1s.


And by rank 1 you mean killing bosses? because i'm fairly sure method players didn't have any BiS so that's not what keeps you from progressing.
Or you mean rank 1 on logs? cause if so i hope you understand now why in that other topic i talked about goals you set for yourself.
Now what if logs didn't exist? because it seems your frustration with gear comes from your inability to get a good score on logs, which you think it's because you're unlucky with gear.
17/10/2018 10:37Posted by Gannet
Now what if logs didn't exist?


I don't get it. They do. So what is the the point asking if they didn't?

17/10/2018 10:37Posted by Gannet
because it seems your frustration with gear comes from your inability to get a good score on logs, which you think it's because you're unlucky with gear.


I do have good score. I want to compete for the top scores, but they are entirely RNG based, because of random upgrades. In the past people competing for the top spots had the exact same gear.
Now I hear it loud and clear. Josh basically said - we don't care about world first, which means they do not care about ranks either. And to me this is one of their biggest mistakes. The strive to push people into harder content is gone. There is no gear represantation, there is no visual represantation, there is not even a Title represantation that shows current content completion. Well I will give Blizzard that, the world first 100 Horde and Ally guilds getting one was a good call.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum