Is Activision “exploiting players” mechanic in Wow?

General
17/10/2018 11:17Posted by Cerimus
Correct, except that now you have to add:
-does the item war/titan forged?
-does the item have the right stats?
-does the item have the Azerite powers i want?
-does my stupid necklace is high enough to unlock the powers i need? (NO the answer is NO)

See how many more trash RNG is piled up on your loot chance?

[/quote]

So much anger, so little sense.

Wether or not items have the right stats is targetable, for the most part, not RNG.

The correct traits are targetable to a degree, not RNG.

Wether or not you have high enough level on your heart is something you can control through farming.
17/10/2018 12:27Posted by Kohanthel
The RNG was no less prevalent before than it is now.

No, but we had alternate methods for guaranteeing gear progress. If you didn't get the elusive 2h mace from Naxx trash (bis for DK's, I remember because I got lucky with that) you could go for the crafted one. TF has changed this dynamic because it happens too often for it to be negligible, you constantly see other people getting TF, it's constantly on your mind that "there's a real chance".

Looking back, whole guild would break up over the loot drama, now that negativity of missed out loot has just spread to the overall gearing process, because we have to constantly bear the notion that there's a better more optimized piece out there while previously you would get some sense of accomplishment from finally getting a bis-piece.

So in short: we have all the bad effects of the RNG, there's more of it with the small chance of bonus and with the BiS items gone we don't have that positive we used to. It's a bad state to be in.
17/10/2018 12:18Posted by Gannet
So i really don't know where you hypocrisy charges come from


17/10/2018 12:18Posted by Gannet
There is a difference between vetting someone for a particular type of content and RESPECTING them for their past achievements (which in a lot of cases it's bought).


17/10/2018 12:18Posted by Gannet
After all, this is a numbers game and if your number isn't high enough i don't care for how long you played the game


No hypocrisy there. You judging people on numbers, and me judging people on achievments is exactly the same thing.

17/10/2018 12:18Posted by Gannet
However i'm relatively content with the game atm, i'm not the one feeling miserable and frustrated by the current gearing system so based on these results i can't safely say i'm not the one with the wrong mindset.


I never said you had the wrong mindset, or I had the right now. But you are trying to bully, or argue on the base that the system is fine and I have the wrong one. You assume the moral highground, because you never care how other players see you, yet you judge others on numbers (I don't know your standarts, but I assume they are ones of a mythic raider), which are out of their hands, especially at the high end, because of the excesive amount of RNG, making the system not fine.
17/10/2018 12:24Posted by Adu
I had multiple 6 to 10 months breaks since cataclysm - as far as I remember on most first days after I resubbed I got rare drops. Amongst them the Sea Turtle with the first cast of the fishing rod and Mimiron's Head.
I strongly suspect altered probabilities for a time when you resub after a break.


when i resubbed after the legion break i got a legendary on first boss kill. Not that it matters as i already had all the legendaries of the 2 specs i used most but still...
17/10/2018 10:01Posted by Bubasparks
They are not selling extra weekly chest rolls for money...YET!

DONT GIVE THEM IDEAS
17/10/2018 12:27Posted by Kohanthel
The RNG was no less prevalent before than it is now. Actually, rather the opposite. If you were a raider in the olden days, getting gear from non-raid contentvto cover holes in your eq was impossible. All you could hope for was to have luck on your side during your once-per-week raid clear. The closest in quality often came from lower tier raid, which you could also only do once per week. Now you can farm gear of close-to-equal quality from m+, arenas, warfronts and even wqs.

And yet, the game was more pupular and had a lot more subbs then now.
17/10/2018 12:38Posted by Thedice
17/10/2018 12:27Posted by Kohanthel
The RNG was no less prevalent before than it is now.

No, but we had alternate methods for guaranteeing gear progress. If you didn't get the elusive 2h mace from Naxx trash (bis for DK's, I remember because I got lucky with that) you could go for the crafted one. TF has changed this dynamic because it happens too often for it to be negligible, you constantly see other people getting TF, it's constantly on your mind that "there's a real chance".

Looking back, whole guild would break up over the loot drama, now that negativity of missed out loot has just spread to the overall gearing process, because we have to constantly bear the notion that there's a better more optimized piece out there while previously you would get some sense of accomplishment from finally getting a bis-piece.

So in short: we have all the bad effects of the RNG, there's more of it with the small chance of bonus and with the BiS items gone we don't have that positive we used to. It's a bad state to be in.


I don't understand. The Naxx 2h was BiS, but you could settle for a crafted non-BiS? But TF is unacceptable because you have to settle for non-BiS in a world where your idea of BiS is something almost purely theoretical?

Why was having to settle for non-BiS then more acceptable than having to settle for non-BiS now?
17/10/2018 11:27Posted by Kyrenna
Yeah make gear targetable so everyone is geared up in 1 week and complain there's nothing to do in this game.


Gear was more targetable in previous Xpacs and yet gearing your character had never been this fast.

Peoples in this thread are not complaining about the time they need to to gear themself up.

They are complaining that all of this only depend of their luck.

Sorry, your post is invalid.
[/quote]
17/10/2018 12:34Posted by Kohanthel
17/10/2018 11:17Posted by Cerimus
Correct, except that now you have to add:
-does the item war/titan forged?
-does the item have the right stats?
-does the item have the Azerite powers i want?
-does my stupid necklace is high enough to unlock the powers i need? (NO the answer is NO)

See how many more trash RNG is piled up on your loot chance?



So much anger, so little sense.

Wether or not items have the right stats is targetable, for the most part, not RNG.

The correct traits are targetable to a degree, not RNG.

Wether or not you have high enough level on your heart is something you can control through farming.
[/quote]

Where do you see the anger?
Because i can ensure you i'm not anger, i'm just sad.

You say that is targetable for the most part, that's not true at all.
You can target stuff if you run low difficult dungeons, if you run M+ you can't target AT ALL, you just get random loot from all loot table in that dungeons and at the end of the week, you open a box with even more randomness picking from all the loot tables of all the dungeons.

And PvP gear? You just get what the game decide to put at the end of "the grind bar" and you get random gear from a box 1/week.

Plus Azerite emissary boxes...

Get your facts straight before accusing others plz.
All you have to do is look up the person running Activision and his history.

You'll then understand exactly why WoW ended up this way.

He doesn't care about the players AT ALL.

Just literally wants Blizzard to find ways to make us pay more.

Also, Cataclysm came out around the merger with Activision so take that how you want.
Partridge farm remembers
when i was farming eye of quagmarian trinket :D simply it wont drop for me. over a half year ...

and nowadays ? players just want bis, and right now, no no no, yestarday was late !
the more i read this forum, the more i think its not that much about expansion being bad, its all about astronomical expectances of players :(
once more, its JUST 2 MONTHS IN THE EXPANSION

* putting on tinfoil hat *
muehehehe you wont get anything from me you Algorythm old god. :)
17/10/2018 12:27Posted by Kohanthel

The RNG was no less prevalent before than it is now. Actually, rather the opposite. If you were a raider in the olden days, getting gear from non-raid contentvto cover holes in your eq was impossible. All you could hope for was to have luck on your side during your once-per-week raid clear. The closest in quality often came from lower tier raid, which you could also only do once per week. Now you can farm gear of close-to-equal quality from m+, arenas, warfronts and even wqs.


Are you at least realising that the example you use to explain why "RNG was nos less prevalent" actually prove it WAS less prevalent?

The fact that getting this type of gear outside of raid was impossible is something that REDUCE the RNG feeling, dude.

Gear was specific to the type of content you were doing. If you were only doing Heroic dungeons, you knew what you will have and how you will be rewarded. Same goes if you were raiding.

Yeah, there was still RNG on loot, but you could know what you were aiming for, and why somebody have the possibility to have X range of gear or not.

In a game where basically every kind of content can reward you every kind of reward with just a little bit of luck, there is no sense of progression and the content you are doing is meaningless, considering that sometimes you'll have loots from Warfront that are better than a loot from raids if you have been lucky.

That's a complete nonsense.

And even if we are speaking about raids specifically, you were having master loot. ML give players a way to have some sort of control on the gear progression of their roster. There was a RNG part, but also a players decisions part. Decicions can be bad, I'm not saying every guild was doing great, but at least they were partially in control.

Nowaday there is RNG and basically nothing else.
17/10/2018 09:34Posted by Manieks
So of you might know the controversy about the Activision (and EA) algorithm that analyzed players and how to get the most money out of them (through microtransactions and stuff)

Short example: If you as a player would buy some weapon from shop for real money, the matchmaking would match you with weaker players on map that the weapon you bought is more useful, so you would feel like you did the right thing buying it so you would want to buy more.

You can read about it on internet, for example here: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/10/17/activision-patented-matchmaking-algorithm-designed-make-spend-money/

Bah.. if you want closer example, take a look at google and how they pray with advertisement on you :P

And that gets me to wonder. Does Blizzard use the similar algorithm for their players?

It probably is based more on maximizing the play time and subscriptions, but can also be based on buying things from store. The more I think about it the more convinced I am that there is something like that in place. That’s why the whole RNG aspect of getting loot. They say it’s true RNG but is it though? It’s not hard to fudge it so the player that is less likely to quit can gain some incentive to stay one more month or more – and they still can say, that it is just RNG. Ow hell, they know when somebody subs end, so they if the person is still playing till the end they can manipulate her to re-sub.

What do you guys thing about it?


what i took away from the OP post is :

if you want to scam players, take everything meaningful out the game and make everything completely random.

because thats a sure way to keep people playing..
17/10/2018 13:13Posted by Kohanthel
But TF is unacceptable because you have to settle for non-BiS in a world where your idea of BiS is something almost purely theoretical?

Getting BiS like the Naxx one was rare, really rare, getting a TF is not that rare. This keeps our hopes up instead of us just thinking it's a nice bonus. If TF was more rare, people would more easily give it a rest. But now it happens so often that you're constantly reminded of the possibility.
17/10/2018 09:34Posted by Manieks
And that gets me to wonder. Does Blizzard use the similar algorithm for their players?

It probably is based more on maximizing the play time and subscriptions, but can also be based on buying things from store. The more I think about it the more convinced I am that there is something like that in place. That’s why the whole RNG aspect of getting loot. They say it’s true RNG but is it though? It’s not hard to fudge it so the player that is less likely to quit can gain some incentive to stay one more month or more – and they still can say, that it is just RNG. Ow hell, they know when somebody subs end, so they if the person is still playing till the end they can manipulate her to re-sub.

What do you guys thing about it?


17/10/2018 12:24Posted by Adu
I had multiple 6 to 10 months breaks since cataclysm - as far as I remember on most first days after I resubbed I got rare drops. Amongst them the Sea Turtle with the first cast of the fishing rod and Mimiron's Head.
I strongly suspect altered probabilities for a time when you resub after a break


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

You should get checked. It's an early warning sign of Schizophrenia.
17/10/2018 09:34Posted by Manieks
Bah.. if you want closer example, take a look at google and how they pray with advertisement on you :P


Adblock, good luck with that Google!

But no, I don't think they do. This is specifically a pay to win scenario with the patent, not something that's in WoW yet. I've been lucky with gear, oddly so, but it's not like I'm likely to go out and buy something extra because of me getting more gear.

Saying that, I only let my subscription lapse the once, so perhaps they aren't targeting players like me.
17/10/2018 09:47Posted by Minjié
They're definitely doing something to push people into micro transactions.

This expansion gold income is significantly less than what it was in Legion, both WQs and Mission tables give you significantly less than it did before, in addition they've added tons of 350 boes which can warforge/titanforge. The economy hasn't adapted to these changes and things are still extremely overpriced.

If this isn't a blatant attempt to make people buy WoW tokens I don't know what is.


also the god damn repair increase lmao they completely ruined the economy in WoD and in Legion instead of fixing and slowing things down they made it MUCH WORSE
No hypocrisy there. You judging people on numbers, and me judging people on achievments is exactly the same thing.


Do you even know what hypocrisy is? cause it looks like willful ignorance on your part since i already explained how declining some 330 ilvl for M+10 isn't casting judgement on the player (they could be the best player in the world for all i care), as is RESPECTING them. I think i made that so clear that even you can understand it.

But here's the problem, you asked some questions, presumed to know me, presumed to know my answers and decided to call me a hypocrite. Now you use the scummiest of mental gymnastics to confirm your presumption. It's rather pathetic but it perfectly fits the mold of the player who's only here to feel better than others. NOW i'm judging, see the difference?
17/10/2018 09:47Posted by Minjié
They're definitely doing something to push people into micro transactions.

This expansion gold income is significantly less than what it was in Legion, both WQs and Mission tables give you significantly less than it did before, in addition they've added tons of 350 boes which can warforge/titanforge. The economy hasn't adapted to these changes and things are still extremely overpriced.

If this isn't a blatant attempt to make people buy WoW tokens I don't know what is.


At the risk of hijacking this and turning it into a 'no flying' rant, which is not my intention, its just an example.

I tend to consider the removal of flying at max lvl and the introduction of the Pathfinder system as the first blatant attempt by Blizzard to in effect 'encourage' gold buying from the cash shop.

Flying was never an issue, until Blizzard made it an issue.

Pathfinder is simply another tool in Blizzards ever growing box of tools designed for the sole purpose of player base manipulation, it allows them to control the exact point in the current expansion when the game world can be heavily farmed by a certain sector of the player base for valuable materials.

Materials such as Ore and Herbs are always more valuable at the start of an expansion than they are at the end of an expansion, So we are not allowed to fly at the start, and then they let us fly towards the end...

But anyway, who cares anymore, lol

But the funny thing about it is that it seems to have the opposite effect : people are quitting because of it.


Or just Unsubbing...

WoD - Unsubbed for most of it
Legion - Unsubbed for most of it.
BFA - Not even purchased it yet,
So many in need of tinfoil hats here.

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