[Spoilers alert] 8.1 Discussion Thread 4

Argent Dawn
Prev 1 15 16 17 Next
09/11/2018 22:26Posted by Aerandul

Edit: Apparently a recent interview stated that Sylvanas was complicit in the Wrathgate... Confused writer, or lore bomb?

Double-edit: Bearing in mind said writer is Afrasiabi.

It's amazing how Blizzard's every attempt to justify BfA lore developments only ends up burying them deeper. This kind of fractal wrongness takes special effort.

https://www.eurogamer.net/amp/2018-11-08-world-of-warcraft-and-the-masterplan-for-sylvanas

"Wait and see" may well be their mantra for BfA lore developments.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=288594/tol-dagor-sylvanas-prize-8-1-cutscene-spoilers

What an absolutely horribly written scenario...

WHYdoes Sylvanas randomly leave Rexxar and Valtrois behind? They're literally standing in front of the boat... Has Blizzard decided to abandon all pretense of Sylvanas being a cold, calculating leader and instead just go for the saturday morning cartoon villain kind of character now?

Why doesn't Valtrois, a flipping mage, just teleport her, Rexxar and the player away?

And what's up with Valtrois' line?

"I was skeptical of the Forsaken when I first joined the Horde, but was assured that they chose their state of undeath willingly. This, however...
The nightborne suffered greatly under the Legion's heel. The atrocities I witnessed... it is distressing how much I am reminded of them now. I will leave it at that."


So raising an (enemy) corpse to fight an enemy you are AT WAR with is SO horrible that a NIGHTBORNE, one whose first instinct was to kill you when you first met AFTER you helped her, would suddenly consider rebellion?


I was skeptical of the Forsaken when I first joined the Horde, but was assured that they chose their state of undeath willingly.


They chose their state of undeath willingly, so... so what? They killed many innocents in one of the most cruel ways possible, raised many undead before, but because their state of undeath is unwilling that's all ok? But another raised undead is suddenly too much? I have no idea what she's trying to say here.

When "I" first joined the Horde


Why does it sounds like that was an independent decision? Does that mean not all Nightborne are part of the Horde??

The nightborne suffered greatly under the Legion's heel. The atrocities I witnessed... it is distressing how much I am reminded of them now.


Again, is raising a corpse really so terrible that it has to be compared to what the Legion has done?? Also, has she forgotten that most of the suffering inflicted on the Nightborne was done by other Nightborne themselves?

Literally every new PBE update makes the writing worse. Not sure how they're gonna salvage BfA and WoW in general.
Ashvane: You only broke me out of that cell because you need something from me.

You don't... You don't really need to state the obvious. "No, we did it out of the goodness of our heart." Like please.

Rexxar and Valtrois are left behind on the island, with not even an acknowledgement from Sylvanas:
Rexxar: Seems we need to find our own way back.
Valtrois: Such is the way of things.
Valtrois: This war has taken many turns. It seems to me our current path is...perilous.
Rexxar: Indeed, my friend. The Horde is at a crossroads...once again.


That "once again" feels a little like a "screw you, YES, we're doing MoP again". And I've no idea why Sylvanas just... leave them... Wherever they are. You could have taken them on the boat and do the conspirator in a cabin, it wasn't that hard. I mean, that's just... That's just dumb! Why would she do that?! This is dumb!
I'm going to give up all hope on the writing if Ashvane decides to become (and remain) Horde loyal instead of stabbing them in the back later on down the line. I mean, the Horde literally killed her husband at Theramore, she should hate them as much as she hates the Proudmoore's (maybe even moreso)
"This is not right!" Baine shouts to me as he stares up at Derek Proudmoore's contorted features. "There is no honour in this."

I don't respond. It's all a little awkward. My exploits during the war against the Legion and on Argus are well known at this point - Nazgrim, King Trollbane, Whitemane, the slaughter at Light's Hope and the Ruby Sanctum. In the distance I hear Kyranastrasz roar - he was a reward that cost an entire flight of dragons. Guardians of Life no less.

"Deathlord." Baine continues, turning to me. My eyes, glimmering with icy blue flames, meet his. "Her deeds disgrace us all. We must set things right, before the Horde loses everything that made us strong." He begins to stomp away, nodding approvingly at Rottgut the Abomination as he strolled past. Rottgut's eyes (pilfered from the still warm corpse of Cordana Felsong) gleam back as the abomination beams its eternal grin at Baine.

"Rottgut!" He says happily. Baine chuckles.
And so, like I commented in that other thread, the cycle of the "Horde being the filler villain" has begun to turn. An otherwise interesting character has been struck with the dick dastardly bat.
13/11/2018 00:01Posted by Aerilen
And so, like I commented in that other thread, the cycle of the "Horde being the filler villain" has begun to turn. An otherwise interesting character has been struck with the dick dastardly bat.


What do you mean 'has begun to turn'?
Saurfang-is-only-pretending-to-be-traitor theory again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqabZsJv7IU

A Good War 'predicted' that the Horde can only win against the Alliance if they divided and conquered. Looking at it from an objective perspective: the Alliance has exhausted all of its soldiers, the battle for Dazal'alor ends up costing them two great leaders, and by extension Stormwind may be left defenseless as the night elf army pushes for control over their Darkshore. Meanwhile, the Zandalari lose Rastakhan and the council of Chosen -- a leader who seems too set in the old ways to fight a war, and a council which is seen as plotting against one another (blood trolls). They get replaced by Talanji, someone with quite the optimism for the Horde.

Notice the underlines there. Can the Kul Tiran fleet make a difference? Because in this light, the Alliance is on the offensive but they are slowly losing.

I'd rather not see this slowly-getting-obvious Horde victory to be turned into another rebellion because Baine only now hit puberty. The Horde, writing-wise, seems unable to win unless they deploy extreme methods, something which is starting to become a real pain considering that the leaders are unable to cope with winning 'by all means necessary' instead of 'letting all of people get stomped for the 6th time in 10 years'.

That's 1.6 stomps per year. It's not good writing, and it's definitely not good decision-making as a leader. I think we need more representation of those who support Sylvanas (other than Nathanos). I know my characters do. We need more actual-Horde representation; what do soldiers think? What do champions think? Is the Saurfang quest choice meant to be that representation?

Seeing character conflict outside of the Horde, for once, makes me hopeful that there is indeed a plan for the story, as opposed to a remake of MoP.
13/11/2018 19:41Posted by Faceslinger
Saurfang-is-only-pretending-to-be-traitor theory again:


How does this relate to the rest of your post? Not sure if I'm missing something...
13/11/2018 19:47Posted by Moburon
How does this relate to the rest of your post? Not sure if I'm missing something...
Sorry yeah, you're likely missing other posts I've made in regards to that.

I like to believe that the hesitant understanding we see from Saurfang in A Good War actually continues throughout the expansion, as opposed to us getting another Horde rebellion. Saurfang, for reference, made a masterful plan largely involving the shattering and stretching of Alliance bonds, starting from the night elves through Teldrassil. It's obvious that Sylvanas' decision to burn Teldrassil did not sit well with him, but here's hoping he sees the bigger picture.

My post above refers to precisely that: in the bigger picture, the original plan described in the shortstory has actually started taking effect. The Alliance is being divided and their loyalties tested.
Face, you give Blizz WAY too much credit there. Don't get me wrong, it would be pretty darn cool, and it'd be neat to see Saurfang as a wily old survivor rather than someone struggling with Blizz's awful writing so far, heh....
13/11/2018 19:41Posted by Faceslinger
Saurfang-is-only-pretending-to-be-traitor theory again:

NO! it cant be! blizzards writers are bad and they cant come up with a plot like that!!! how dare you!!!
13/11/2018 20:52Posted by Aerillan
13/11/2018 19:41Posted by Faceslinger
Saurfang-is-only-pretending-to-be-traitor theory again:

NO! it cant be! blizzards writers are bad and they cant come up with a plot like that!!! how dare you!!!


Sarcasm only works when there's not copious evidence that, actually, they can't string stuff together long term.
Individual 'episodes' can be good, even great... but the overall series is so much sludge with gems in it.
Maybe unpopular opinion but I still don't hate BFA. Besides the fact that it's just a game and that there's no reason to get so invested in it like as if you're being personally drafted to the war and the faction tribalism is really toxic, I am enjoying the fact that they're treating us to a nice dinner with wine with these Heritage sets and allied races instead of !@#$ing me in the %^- like usual without lube when it comes to nice things.

Also the intelligent take is to know that the controversial story direction can be played to flesh out your character's values and define them as a person, giving you a lot of room for character growth.

Loyalty vs Honour with Horde characters. What does it mean to your character, and what can they do for it? If you choose honour, are you willing to spill your kin's blood again after last time if it comes to that? If you choose loyalty but your friends choose honour, how does that play into your dynamic?

Loss of Teldrassil, the night elves' fall from grace and coming to terms with the harsh reality for night elves like that hot thread I posted a while back https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624462416#post-1 as well as unleashing nature's fury in 8.1.

Justice vs vengeance for Alliance characters. The Horde has shown that they're willing to do some disgusting things under Sylvanas's watch. Is your character willing to drop to their level and fight dirty, or will they hold out hope for the vision Anduin has for after the war? Will there even be an Alliance after the war?

I'm not saying Blizzard's writing is the hottest thing since sliced bread, but in an ironic way the disaster of an expansion has the largest potential for the stories we make with our characters. Same happened with WoD, and that expansion had some of the best server campaigns I remember.

stay friendly my dudes
13/11/2018 20:49Posted by Kaytlinne
Face, you give Blizz WAY too much credit there.
Am I though? While my expectations are extremely low and I can definitely have a rant at how bad their portrayal of the story has been in-game, they are capable of wrapping things up in a neat way. It is precisely their ability to create self-contained stories that makes Blizzard writing so good and frustrating at the same time. Simply put, if you look at BfA as a part of a continuous story, you will be disappointed. You will also be disappointed if you look at any other expansion and the inconsistencies it has created compared to upcoming/previous ones. If you look at expansions as separate items and clear your mind of old details, however, you get a pretty ok story.

The Alliance is not in a good spot. The Horde is not in a good spot. After many years of faction war'ing we get a solid view and decent representation of how a war affects political and personal ties. Blizzard isn't writing Game of Thrones, but they're actually doing better than they used to. Putting so much emphasis on story and character development is something very new in the WoW scene, and I think that our views are skewed because of it: in previous expansions, our mind filled in the massive gaps. And, of course, everyone thinks that what they write/do is the pinnacle of amazing. Blizzard no longer only creates the setting; they now provide the story. It'll get some getting used to disagreeing (!!) with their decisions, but I'm sure we'll live through it.
Audio only, but this is what we hear at the cutscene of Rastakhan's death:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHsky4J2TgM

I bet we'll have a cutscene with Jaina as well, but Talanji finds out Rastakhan's deal with Bwonsamdi.
https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=145915/kaldorei-dark-ranger#modelviewer:10+0

.....That dark ranger skin actually looks badass as hell. Gimme. Nao.
Apparently you get the Onyx war Hyena from a Rated Battleground or Rated Arena
Victory. (unknown if that's you win once you get it or if you win you have a chance of getting it is unclear.)

Guess I'm going to have to find me an Arena buddy to win one with if I want to complete my collection... I'm screwed.
13/11/2018 19:41Posted by Faceslinger
the Alliance has exhausted all of its soldiers,
But has it, though? Coffins of an equal size are returning to Stormwind, so one can assume that these are Stormwind soldiers returning to their homeland - likely meaning that it is "only" the last of Stormwind's actual standing army trained being sent off to replace the fallen. It isn't the entire Alliance and but while Stormwind may have exhausted the relatively "limited" amount of experienced soldiers they can draw from to replace the fallen, they can still conscript farmers and other civilians to replace this last wave of actual soldiers.
Good news: The latest PTR build has added a transmoggable top hat, alongside other versions of the fancy clothing/gilnean clothing.

Better news: The top hat has hat hair. (though it looks awful on my belf atm due to the hairstyle she has) https://i.gyazo.com/5aeca8b38ff2f3c574ce941e55b5089b.png

Bad news: The hat is cloth exclusive, as is the rest of the new clothing added.

why do you do this to us blizzard, it's not hard to make that gear cosmetic, you already did it with the noble's set from the darkmoon faire

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum