Arcane Wielding NElves better as a sub Race or In the Group?

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21/10/2018 16:04Posted by Savoren
We're lucky its only 2 characters this time, he usually switches between 4-5 alts. He even posted on his alt to agree with his OP, but people called him out on it.

Savoren, nobody cares, a person who posts consecutively wjth his toons where everyone can see it is the same account is not trying to agree with himself or hide anything stop derailing my topics with this nonsense already. You seem to be the only one bothered about it

And since you have been responded to cordially about this twice in 2 separate threads, but still insist on bringing the exact same thing up, you are clearly trolling my posts and i will consider it as harassment. This is against forum regulations and could result in your account being suspended.
OP why you switch your character all the time? What you want wouldn't happen anyway. Arcane is still boring so I don't miss this crap on the night elfes, which doesn't use that since 10.000 years. We have badass fighter, which are more interesting than mages.
21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
Evidence?


Outlawed from Quel'Thalas years prior. This is stated by the Blood Elves in Azshara

If Blood Elves can easily exploit them, and have prior knowledge on how they work, they are weak constructs and this further entails that the Blood Elves will always be that one step ahead of the Highborne, because it only makes sense.

Where the Shen'dralar might learn something new, to benefit their respective war efforts, this would have already been knowledge and practice for the Blood Elves.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
he is literally picking on novices that are a few weeks


Novices and Highborne alike.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lorekeeper_Amberwind

This woman is a Highborne and she is managing a group of Apprentices. She and her brethren are already crafting outlawed, easily exploited constructs.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
for starters you would know that night elf arcana 10 k years ago was ahead of everything today


Back then, maybe - but in today's Azeroth, it's deeply lacking and the evidence is all in Azshara.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
not only that they've been scrying on the world the whole time


Care to pinpoint the evidence for this? Who tells us that they've been scrying on the entirety of Azeroth?

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
like the nightborne you meet a few years later


Except Nightborne maintained powerful techniques with telemancy and had an expertise in leyline scrying.

The Shen'dralar had none of these. The only things they were doing were siphoning demonic essence of a demon and chasing rogue demonic imps around their libraries who kept stealing their books.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
How is me saying the night elves are embracing the arcane (which is a direct quote from source material btw)


Quoted from the Horde PoV and what the Horde sees. This isn't what is evident and Blizzard have moved away from it. The Alliance Night Elves are Druids, Priests and Sentinels. Blizzard are now developing the Wardens to be apart of this group, but aside from that, the Highborne...they are practically nothing.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
I have little confidence you are actually understanding what I'm saying


We all know exactly what your saying and what your saying is twisted headcanon, in order to try and push for sh!tty Alliance nightborne, which won't ever happen or trying to sh!t on blood elf fans and blood elf lore.
21/10/2018 20:50Posted by Starstride

You seem to be the only one bothered about it


Yup. Only one. Not like it has been pointed out by people who posted on your older threads. Not like you've just answered one who pointed it out, and one more poster told about it right after your post. Nope. Just me.


(yes i know your trio of trouble maker goons upvote you as you do them, I see your little gang doing this all the time on alliance threads, especially ones that talk about night elves improving in serious ways or about high elves)


Of course, it is our sworn duty to seek out and obliterate any Night Elf and High Elf improvement and exert the dominance of Sin'dorei.

For Quel'Thalas!


I have noticed come on posts and you lie to suit your own means, make false statements with no proof or lore to back them up, and when people provide you with evidence ofc, you have no answer, you wait a little while, visit another topic and repeat the same b/s - no evidence, no proof, no lore backing you up. But you know me, i will call you out on your b/s once in a while, most of the time i just ignore you.


I did provide logical answers backed up by lore. I, as well as other posters, have pointed out several times that modern Kaldorei culture is about Sentinels, druids and priestesses of Elune, and that arcane is not a part of that culture. Minairia (apparently they have the patience of a saint to deal with your bull!@#$ for this long) even gave perfect examples of why arcane is not a part of Kaldorei culture and why Shen'drelar aren't a match to neither Blood Elves nor Nightborne.

You on the other hand, do nothing but trying to insert your %^-*ty headcanon into lore, not caring about how it doesn't make any sense or how would it damage the identity of not only Night Elves, but also of Blood Elves and Nightborne as well.
18/10/2018 17:55Posted by Kayleen
we already have 2 "magic themed" elven races playable, and they are both horde.
was it a good idea by blizz? I don't think so, but this is what we got, I doubt we'll ever get another one for the alliance.


Kathleen, we already started with 2 magical elven races, in wow, the first was night elves they've always been a magical elven race, then it was blood elves.

Nightborne are magical, as are void elves, two of these races are alliance, 2 horde
21/10/2018 20:54Posted by Xatary
OP why you switch your character all the time? What you want wouldn't happen anyway. Arcane is still boring so I don't miss this crap on the night elfes, which doesn't use that since 10.000 years. We have badass fighter, which are more interesting than mages.

Funny, you find it boring, but playing a demon hunter who is a gel and arcane master, it's okay, neither I nor blizzard expect everyone to like or desire arcane mages, that is why you can be demon hunters or priests, druids or hunters, fire mages or frost mages.

As for the other question, I have answered it a few times including on the previous page,
Short answer - because I feel like, what's it to you or anyone what toon I play or write with?

Long answer here https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624492455?page=4#post-66
Or
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624542663?page=5#post-87

And in several other locations
21/10/2018 22:41Posted by Starstride
but playing a demon hunter who is a gel and arcane master


Today I learned that demon hunters are arcane masters, guess I'll create a thread to demand timewarp and spellsteal for both demon hunter specs.

Seriously though, we know Illidan is the first demon hunter and he used to be a powerful mage before that, but it doesn't mean every other demon hunter is the same. Demon hunters are all about fel, they have nothing to do with arcane.
Ok, let's just close this off

I don't believe blizzard created the night elves to be forest elves stuck in ruins and forests focused mainly on nature, that is just a portion of their whole and was just the start point for the first game as evidenced in its manual, that kicks of introducing them as the originators of magic mastery, arcane based amongst the small races, and then gives them an interesting story, introducing them for the game at a second major turning point event.

They share with us that they are the best of the dark elves and the forest elves fused together, their vast arcane civilization and their long vigil culture set up and reveal the best of each of these facets, while the opening game, culminates in a climax that ends the previous era so that a new era for them can start in the incoming flagship game. It would be short sighted to assume they would remain in only forest and ruins for their new emergence like we saw in wc3, a start that was defined by a particular task necessitating a particular set of rules and mode of existence that ceased to be relevant after the opening games great climactic end. And so we see a city built, then later the arcane wielding ban lifted, then later Suramar return and more facets... What does this show and tell you?

The opening story has some of their best leaders fall to corruption, and the night elves you meet are those that survived and resisted this. Again, I don't believe they planned for that to be the end of arcane magic for the night elves or of civilization, Darnassus, the shen'dralar, Suramar, the nightborne, the Farondis, Illidan and demon hunters, the Moonguard are all evidence of this. They are not evidence of blizzard making the night elves arcane only because we see development of the druids of classic, and the female warrior priests of wc3 continue alongside their returning arcane elements, and all these facets are grown. Naturally, the arcane is shown the most as it had the least exposure, that also makes sense if the night elves truly are a fusion of the best of both dark elves and forest elves and in game the forest section has had the exposure, it is to be expected, the arcane one to be developed more, and so it was in Legion through Suramar and Azsuna, nightborne and Farondis, and will continue too, especially with nightborne gone horde.

Now the high elves were the first elves to appear in the game series (wc2), but the night elves are who blizzard wanted to be the original elves (Think about this). The evidence of this is the story of the night elves. Now to show how they are both connected, blizzard wrote some of a particular group of highborne who were part of the demon summoning night elves to be redeemed, fight the demons, but later get exiled.

Again, the purpose is not so night elves become forest elves and high elves magical elves, it is to connect the two groups

As the highborne were the most extravagant and gifted of the night elves with arcane magic, it explains why the high is in high elves and fancy, since they came from that stock, but they become their own thing, linked to the highborne by ancestors. A small kingdom of elves the humans know. But think, why write a group like the highborne and what comes out of doing this? To make night elves forest elves? Ofc not, you wont have ccalled them night elves if that was the case. For the purposes of creating the high elves or for blood elves? Pkease, that cant be it seeing high ekves appeared first, and its a bit much to think night elf lore is created for blood elves. It off is part of the night elf story, showing the arcane dark elf side. What else can the highborne tell us? For starters, that night elves are incredibly gifted at the arcane. How did one become highborne? If Queen Azshara spotted an elf very talented at magic she designated them highborne. This means that night elves produce very talented spell casters, they dont need a highborne caste to be good at the arcane, the highborne cast is just an order that the best night elven arcane wielders are grouped together, and could do so under any other name. Point? The highborne is created for the night elves. It is fine for the the high elves to be connected to the night elves via the best arcane wielding night elf group, but it is a night elf associated group, and as we see, it now plays a role once more in the main kaldorei group's new era. And if the dev interviews, and the lore revealed is anything to go by, it is as big a part of the night elves as the nature side, and is intended to be just as amazing.

First, its interesting Rather than think the creation of the high elves is to end the highborne, rather think of the highborne as a tool of demonstrating the night elf arcane side.

The night elves are the big original elves, they are made different not by striking magic off them, there is no evidence of this if you consider their story and both their pre sundering and long vigil eras have the arcane at the centre, just that in one era the arcane is dominantly used, in then other nature is dominantly used - this is a plot device, both night elven arcana and nature assets and descriptions are there from the very start although it would take a while for blizzard to design all of it so you could see all.

They don't make night elves the same as high elves though, they make them both more magical, and more feral, both more aggressive and more peaceful and they make the way their arcane operates and their civilization looks to be different, same with their forest and nature expression, it is different from the high elves. The high Elves is more tame, controlled, like the humans, the night Elves far more intense, same with their arcana.

Night elves and blood elves both have cities and forests, it is not that blood elves have only cities and night elves only forests. Both have arcane and nature too, but both have it in different ways.

Warcraft elves are all magical, you only need read the night elf background and games to see it is full of magic, both arcane and nature, whereas the high elves is arcane and the light.

Look at Suramar, it is night elf arcana, in a night elf story, the blood elves are as connected to the nightborne as they are the shen'dralar and the night elves. The nightborne were made night elven, meant for them, think about it, why choose Suramar? Why choose a bunch of night elves far more connected to the alliance kaldorei? Why are blood elves missing for most of the story, only to play an equal part with alliance night elves in only part of the final 11 chapters? Think? It wasn't blood elves missing their arcane heritage or in need of some glamour or in need of their addiction legacy being healed - blood elves already had found their solution, already had their arcane element, they weren't in need of one.

If originally intended for blood elves, I believe we would have had some group of Thalassian elves playing a role, but it was a night elf expansion, the first ever in wow, showing a very night elven theme across the zones and through all the aspects of the night elves, arcane, nature, demon hunters, female warrior priests, it's all there, not just nature druids like in classic, nor just aggressive female warrior priests like in wc3. The nightborne were a night elven sub race created for the night elves. However mid expansion blizzard changed their mind, they are entitled to. Now I wonder what else will change.

But to Summarise:
A portion of the night elves that was part of the fanciest group broke away ànd became it's own thing, this wasnt all the group, just one sub group of them. This sub group it took on a new version all by itself. Blizzard didn't destroy the original highborne, or the night elves connection or aptitude to the arcane, they instead restored it in the shen'dralar, nightborne, Farondis and Moonguard, even demon hunters to an extent, through the stories been shown. Even though they are on the horde, the nightborne are

Now later, the night elven fancy portion from another group returned to them, and yet again later one of their cities returned, Therefore I expect some of that night elf fancy highborne stuff to be seen in the main nightnelf group. And I expect to be as amazing as it was described to be.
21/10/2018 22:41Posted by Starstride
Funny, you find it boring, but playing a demon hunter who is a gel and arcane master
Funny that none of my Spells deals arcana dmg, because we only use chaos magic ;)
21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
Evidence?


Outlawed from Quel'Thalas years prior. This is stated by the Blood Elves in Azshara

If Blood Elves can easily exploit them, and have prior knowledge on how they work, they are weak constructs and this further entails that the Blood Elves will always be that one step ahead of the Highborne, because it only makes sense.

Where the Shen'dralar might learn something new, to benefit their respective war efforts, this would have already been knowledge and practice for the Blood Elves.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
he is literally picking on novices that are a few weeks


Novices and Highborne alike.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lorekeeper_Amberwind

This woman is a Highborne and she is managing a group of Apprentices. She and her brethren are already crafting outlawed, easily exploited constructs.

21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
for starters you would know that night elf arcana 10 k years ago was ahead of everything today


Back then, maybe - but in today's Azeroth, it's deeply lacking and the evidence is all in Azshara.



Is this your evidence? Let's look at this a little closer:
  • So the use of constructs is outdated to blood elves - becasue it can be exploited by spies - something people in constant war would be aware of and thus modify - therefore ALL the night elven magic or rather specifically the highborne magic is outdated and inferior to the blood elves?


  • So because these supposed shen'dralar highborne use a construct that is outdated, and the blood elf mocks it - all their magic is well behind even though th elore tells you they've been studying arcane magic feverishly for 10,000 years and 10,000 years they were ahead of anything today.. but one construct. How do you know the rest of their magic is outdated? - assuming that is actually shen'dralar magic.


  • Does not the quest tell you it is the fastest and most effective way to learn, but the blood elves stopped using it ages ago because it could be exploited, so you conclude because shen'dralar who have not had to fight like the high elves have so haven't needed to safeguard constructs like that, use the most effective way to train their students, therefore the blood elves are vastly superior in ALL magic than the highborne, rather than just know about this weakness - that possibly one highborne (not necessarily all) may or may not have been aware of.?

  • How do you know she didn't know about this weakness anyway, but was confident that it didn't matter, or that she could compensate for it if any lesser mage tried - or just made a judgement call because speed was needed and the risk was worth taking ? this convinces you shen'dralar highborne magic is inferior? - this is assuming it is shen'dralar ofc

  • Did you not notice how the teacher is taken out first by the hero? It could be that she could have easily prevented an exploit, how do you know that is not the case? And do you think the player hero assassinating an individual makes the magic of a legendary arcane using group much weaker than the blood elves? I assassinated nightborne and blood elves on many of my toons, i guess that makes their magic super weak. Coming to think of it i have taken out leaders, generals of Eredar Legion lords, naga, ethereals, dragons and titan guardians - i guess the magic of their group is weak because of that.

  • How do you know Amberwind is even shen'dralar? She is highborne, yes, but is she shen'dralar highborne even? I guess you are unaware of the blizzard dev tweet that confirmed the obvious, that all the night elven arcane users in Azshara were novices or newly trained. How do you know she was not recently ascended? or an old highborne kaldorei not part of the shen'dralar returned? The lore tells us that some night elven highborne returned to their highborne roots when the shend'ralar were let back in.


  • Do you not meet more advanced lore keepers later on in the zone? They are also only weeks in training and are still novices, but some of them are teaching others, and none of them are shen'dralar. But whether Amberwind was one or she wasn't, still to judge the entire magic of a race based on a construct you are told is the best way to learn and you know the night elves are speeding up learning to push mages into the frontline to add arcane power to their defense and offensive campaigns - the Amberwind lady, whether novice, returnee highborne, or legendary shen'dralar - whatever she was could have been aware of this, you have no idea. You just have the blood elves' point of view.


  • Nightborne and night elves sometimes have <the highborne> under their designiation, doesn't mean they are shen'dralar - we know the shen'dralar new students become highborne, that is part of the treaty /agreement they made with the Darnassian Night elves. How do you know Amberwind wasn't a newly raised highborne herslef? Or a Darnassian one from 10k years that had put aside arcane magic and recently picked it up again?


  • If you are making assumptions on the entire race because of one event, don't you think that is a bit funny? you are playing the quest from a horde perspective, you know some blood elves and especially horde orcs are notorious for bragging and being full of themselves - do you think because that example is shown that it is proof of the capability of the night elves or the state of shen'dralar magic when the lore shows you this race is incredibly gifted at the arcane, and moments before in the text of the blood elf female, she has the opposite reaction, terrified of what the kaldorei could do if they fully embraced their arcane legacy.

    Back then, maybe - but in today's Azeroth, it's deeply lacking and the evidence is all in Azshara.
    Meagning, that amongst the group that didn't lose any knowledge because their city was not in ruins and destroyed, but they had all their tomes, arcane constructs, Ancients of lore, full university city functioning until 200 years ago, it means unlike the darnassian kaldorei who were up there 10k years ago, but certainly not there today in terms of the arcane, the shen'dralar and the nightborne would be a different ball game all together.

    And the Azshara quests are confronting darnassian novices... guys who have been weeks in training only. Hardly an indication of the knoweldge of the shen'dralar or the full capability of night elven arcana.

    If they can go that far in a few weeks, they must be terribly good.

    Quoted from the Horde PoV and what the Horde sees. This isn't what is evident and Blizzard have moved away from it. The Alliance Night Elves are Druids, Priests and Sentinels. Blizzard are now developing the Wardens to be apart of this group, but aside from that, the Highborne...they are practically nothing.

    And why do you keep ignoring mages too, that are part of the group and are been shown more often. Skip outside the darnassian group, and you have the nightborne, the farondis ghosts, the Moonguard - that is a lot of night elven arcana showing up.

    Why do you think blizzard wants to leave night elves as forest elves only when they made them night elves? made them purple, gave the glowing arcane powered eyes by the well ofe ternity, and such a distinguished arcane legacy and pedigree? Especially when blizzard never makes any of their major races ever about 1 thing, it is usually at least 2 and often 3-4 major things. Why do you think the night elves should only be druid and priests only? Or live in forests and ruins only with that sort of make up?

    Magic is the biggest fantasy of the elves, and the night elves are the original elves, with magic all over thier lore - arcane and nature, first arcane then nature, they are told to be the fusion of the best of the dark elves and the forest elves,
    • Why do you honestly think they would be night elves and forever stay in WC3 mode or wow classic mode?
    • Why would ever race get to advance and show new parts of emphasize new parts but not night elves?
    • Why would blood elves get to have cities and forest full of magic, but night elves left with only forests and ruins when their lore is full of great cities, forests and magic? - ofc it's not the case.
    • Why would blizzard give only the horde the best and most desirable aspects of fantasy especially when it comes to elves, and leave the alliance low consigning them to only feral and martial prowress? They wouldn't and they haven't - atm the alliance ones are just a lot worse than the hordes, but they have it, and the neutral non-alliance and horde night elves have tons of magi
    • c


    Care to pinpoint the evidence for this? Who tells us that they've been scrying on the entirety of Azeroth?
    Dire Maul in classic showed this, and it was brought up again when the shen'dralar brought the activities and plots of deathwing and Azshara to the night elves to press an alliance in the Catac pre-expac event lore that was released

    21/10/2018 22:36Posted by Savoren
    Yup. Only one. Not like it has been pointed out by people who posted on your older threads. Not like you've just answered one who pointed it out, and one more poster told about it right after your post. Nope. Just me.
    I pretty sure you are the first one that brought it up, showing how weird you are being, and you brought it up in 3 consecutive topics I made on night elves, contributing nothing to the conversation, or topic, just coming to derail and harrass.. i believe this is called trolling and harrassing, I am not sure that such behaviour is against the code of conduct and could result in a suspension or even permanent ban of your posting privileges.

    22/10/2018 12:16Posted by Savoren
    Today I learned that demon hunters are arcane masters, guess I'll create a thread to demand timewarp and spellsteal for both demon hunter specs.
    It's in Illidan the book, it is mentioned in TBC, and the Inscription quests go into quite some detail about it.

    I know not everyone knows the lore of the classes they play, but do some research before making accusations next time. Save us both the hassle.
    21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
    Evidence?


    Outlawed from Quel'Thalas years prior. This is stated by the Blood Elves in Azshara

    If Blood Elves can easily exploit them, and have prior knowledge on how they work, they are weak constructs and this further entails that the Blood Elves will always be that one step ahead of the Highborne, because it only makes sense.

    Where the Shen'dralar might learn something new, to benefit their respective war efforts, this would have already been knowledge and practice for the Blood Elves.

    21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
    he is literally picking on novices that are a few weeks


    Novices and Highborne alike.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lorekeeper_Amberwind

    This woman is a Highborne and she is managing a group of Apprentices. She and her brethren are already crafting outlawed, easily exploited constructs.

    21/10/2018 20:46Posted by Starstride
    for starters you would know that night elf arcana 10 k years ago was ahead of everything today


    Back then, maybe - but in today's Azeroth, it's deeply lacking and the evidence is all in Azshara.



    Care to pinpoint the evidence for this? Who tells us that they've been scrying on the entirety of Azeroth?
    Dire Maul in classic showed this, and it was brought up again when the shen'dralar brought the activities and plots of deathwing and Azshara to the night elves to press an alliance in the Catac pre-expac event lore that was released

    I pretty sure you are the first one that brought it up, showing how weird you are being, and you brought it up in 3 consecutive topics I made on night elves, contributing nothing to the conversation, or topic, just coming to derail and harrass.. i believe this is called trolling and harrassing, I am not sure that such behaviour is against the code of conduct and could result in a suspension or even permanent ban of your posting privileges.


    I was the first one to point it out in one thread, many others after me have done the same. Even on this thread two other posters did, and you've even replied to one of them.

    You might want to look up the meaning of derailing and harassing. Pointing out the cheap tricks you're trying to pull on a topic are neither derailing nor harassing. Posting those walls of text which are full of your low grade headcanon, on the other hand, can easily qualify for spamming.

    23/10/2018 00:34Posted by Starstride

    It's in Illidan the book, it is mentioned in TBC, and the Inscription quests go into quite some detail about it.

    I know not everyone knows the lore of the classes they play, but do some research before making accusations next time. Save us both the hassle.


    Did you even read the second paragraph of the post you've quoted? I've already said it about Illidan and how he used to be a powerful mage before he was a demon hunter. You make it sound like being a mage is a prerequisite for becoming a demon hunter, it isn't and demon hunters have nothing to do with arcane.

    Read the very first part of this:

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Jace_Darkweaver

    It clearly states that demon hunters cannot use the arcane because of heavy fel influence. Makes sense as well, because arcane and fel are the opposite ends of the spectrum. If a demon hunter used to be a mage then it's only natural for them to retain their knowledge of the arcane, but they cannot use it.
    ...

    Outlawed from Quel'Thalas years prior. This is stated by the Blood Elves in Azshara

    If Blood Elves can easily exploit them, and have prior knowledge on how they work, they are weak constructs and this further entails that the Blood Elves will always be that one step ahead of the Highborne, because it only makes sense.

    Where the Shen'dralar might learn something new, to benefit their respective war efforts, this would have already been knowledge and practice for the Blood Elves.

    ...

    Novices and Highborne alike.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Lorekeeper_Amberwind

    This woman is a Highborne and she is managing a group of Apprentices. She and her brethren are already crafting outlawed, easily exploited constructs.

    ...

    Back then, maybe - but in today's Azeroth, it's deeply lacking and the evidence is all in Azshara.



    Is this your evidence? Let's look at this a little closer:
  • So the use of constructs is outdated to blood elves - becasue it can be exploited by spies - something people in constant war would be aware of and thus modify - therefore ALL the night elven magic or rather specifically the highborne magic is outdated and inferior to the blood elves?


  • So because these supposed shen'dralar highborne use a construct that is outdated, and the blood elf mocks it - all their magic is well behind even though th elore tells you they've been studying arcane magic feverishly for 10,000 years and 10,000 years they were ahead of anything today.. but one construct. How do you know the rest of their magic is outdated? - assuming that is actually shen'dralar magic.


  • Does not the quest tell you it is the fastest and most effective way to learn, but the blood elves stopped using it ages ago because it could be exploited, so you conclude because shen'dralar who have not had to fight like the high elves have so haven't needed to safeguard constructs like that, use the most effective way to train their students, therefore the blood elves are vastly superior in ALL magic than the highborne, rather than just know about this weakness - that possibly one highborne (not necessarily all) may or may not have been aware of.?

  • How do you know she didn't know about this weakness anyway, but was confident that it didn't matter, or that she could compensate for it if any lesser mage tried - or just made a judgement call because speed was needed and the risk was worth taking ? this convinces you shen'dralar highborne magic is inferior? - this is assuming it is shen'dralar ofc

  • Did you not notice how the teacher is taken out first by the hero? It could be that she could have easily prevented an exploit, how do you know that is not the case? And do you think the player hero assassinating an individual makes the magic of a legendary arcane using group much weaker than the blood elves? I assassinated nightborne and blood elves on many of my toons, i guess that makes their magic super weak. Coming to think of it i have taken out leaders, generals of Eredar Legion lords, naga, ethereals, dragons and titan guardians - i guess the magic of their group is weak because of that.

  • How do you know Amberwind is even shen'dralar? She is highborne, yes, but is she shen'dralar highborne even? I guess you are unaware of the blizzard dev tweet that confirmed the obvious, that all the night elven arcane users in Azshara were novices or newly trained. How do you know she was not recently ascended? or an old highborne kaldorei not part of the shen'dralar returned? The lore tells us that some night elven highborne returned to their highborne roots when the shend'ralar were let back in.


  • Do you not meet more advanced lore keepers later on in the zone? They are also only weeks in training and are still novices, but some of them are teaching others, and none of them are shen'dralar. But whether Amberwind was one or she wasn't, still to judge the entire magic of a race based on a construct you are told is the best way to learn and you know the night elves are speeding up learning to push mages into the frontline to add arcane power to their defense and offensive campaigns - the Amberwind lady, whether novice, returnee highborne, or legendary shen'dralar - whatever she was could have been aware of this, you have no idea. You just have the blood elves' point of view.


  • Nightborne and night elves sometimes have <the highborne> under their designiation, doesn't mean they are shen'dralar - we know the shen'dralar new students become highborne, that is part of the treaty /agreement they made with the Darnassian Night elves. How do you know Amberwind wasn't a newly raised highborne herslef? Or a Darnassian one from 10k years that had put aside arcane magic and recently picked it up again?


  • If you are making assumptions on the entire race because of one event, don't you think that is a bit funny? you are playing the quest from a horde perspective, you know some blood elves and especially horde orcs are notorious for bragging and being full of themselves - do you think because that example is shown that it is proof of the capability of the night elves or the state of shen'dralar magic when the lore shows you this race is incredibly gifted at the arcane, and moments before in the text of the blood elf female, she has the opposite reaction, terrified of what the kaldorei could do if they fully embraced their arcane legacy.

    Back then, maybe - but in today's Azeroth, it's deeply lacking and the evidence is all in Azshara.
    Meagning, that amongst the group that didn't lose any knowledge because their city was not in ruins and destroyed, but they had all their tomes, arcane constructs, Ancients of lore, full university city functioning until 200 years ago, it means unlike the darnassian kaldorei who were up there 10k years ago, but certainly not there today in terms of the arcane, the shen'dralar and the nightborne would be a different ball game all together.

    And the Azshara quests are confronting darnassian novices... guys who have been weeks in training only. Hardly an indication of the knoweldge of the shen'dralar or the full capability of night elven arcana.

    If they can go that far in a few weeks, they must be terribly good.

    Quoted from the Horde PoV and what the Horde sees. This isn't what is evident and Blizzard have moved away from it. The Alliance Night Elves are Druids, Priests and Sentinels. Blizzard are now developing the Wardens to be apart of this group, but aside from that, the Highborne...they are practically nothing.

    And why do you keep ignoring mages too, that are part of the group and are been shown more often. Skip outside the darnassian group, and you have the nightborne, the farondis ghosts, the Moonguard - that is a lot of night elven arcana showing up.

    Why do you think blizzard wants to leave night elves as forest elves only when they made them night elves? made them purple, gave the glowing arcane powered eyes by the well ofe ternity, and such a distinguished arcane legacy and pedigree? Especially when blizzard never makes any of their major races ever about 1 thing, it is usually at least 2 and often 3-4 major things. Why do you think the night elves should only be druid and priests only? Or live in forests and ruins only with that sort of make up?

    Magic is the biggest fantasy of the elves, and the night elves are the original elves, with magic all over thier lore - arcane and nature, first arcane then nature, they are told to be the fusion of the best of the dark elves and the forest elves,
    • Why do you honestly think they would be night elves and forever stay in WC3 mode or wow classic mode?
    • Why would ever race get to advance and show new parts of emphasize new parts but not night elves?
    • Why would blood elves get to have cities and forest full of magic, but night elves left with only forests and ruins when their lore is full of great cities, forests and magic? - ofc it's not the case.
    • Why would blizzard give only the horde the best and most desirable aspects of fantasy especially when it comes to elves, and leave the alliance low consigning them to only feral and martial prowress? They wouldn't and they haven't - atm the alliance ones are just a lot worse than the hordes, but they have it, and the neutral non-alliance and horde night elves have tons of magi
    • c


    Care to pinpoint the evidence for this? Who tells us that they've been scrying on the entirety of Azeroth?
    Dire Maul in classic showed this, and it was brought up again when the shen'dralar brought the activities and plots of deathwing and Azshara to the night elves to press an alliance in the Catac pre-expac event lore that was released

    21/10/2018 22:36Posted by Savoren
    Yup. Only one. Not like it has been pointed out by people who posted on your older threads. Not like you've just answered one who pointed it out, and one more poster told about it right after your post. Nope. Just me.
    I pretty sure you are the first one that brought it up, showing how weird you are being, and you brought it up in 3 consecutive topics I made on night elves, contributing nothing to the conversation, or topic, just coming to derail and harrass.. i believe this is called trolling and harrassing, I am not sure that such behaviour is against the code of conduct and could result in a suspension or even permanent ban of your posting privileges.

    22/10/2018 12:16Posted by Savoren
    Today I learned that demon hunters are arcane masters, guess I'll create a thread to demand timewarp and spellsteal for both demon hunter specs.
    It's in Illidan the book, it is mentioned in TBC, and the Inscription quests go into quite some detail about it.

    I know not everyone knows the lore of the classes they play, but do some research before making accusations next time. Save us both the hassle.


    All headcanon.

    I almost fell off my seat at the part about Highborne...oh wait... :D
    You make a statement about the highborne that is based purely on conjecture (headcanon), interpreting a quest experience (Azshara) to make an unfounded generalisation about the shen’dralar the lore is in direct contradiction too because it indicates the night elves 10 k years ago were magically ahead of every other civilization even those today on azeroth, and that the shen’dralar, like the nightborne were a group of night elves that had never stopped wielding the arcane for those 10,000 years, improving their knowledge and skill from an already advanced position, furthermore unlike the nightborne they weren’t in a bubble, so had more exposure, it is mentioned in DireMaul they’ve been scrying on everyone the whole time which makes sense, if they were masking their profile from the Darnassian night elves and were knowledge addicts there quests and dialogues in Dire Maul and DK artifact weapon indicate.

    Basically either the lore is contradicting itself, or what you are saying is canon. And you see no way your interpretation can be wrong and the lore having no contradiction in this area? . You are Displaying the arrogance of the race you love insisting you and your view is right, and the lore is just confused, and I am spouting headcanon quoting it to you. Honey, what you are saying, that is headcanon

    I ask you a bunch of question concerning that particular quest in the hopes you will see question your interpretation and see that your leap is at best questionable, because the lore explicitly tells you the shen’dralar never stopped studying or using the arcane, just like the nightborne, so how can you conclude that based on an event that you can’t even verify your conclusions about are correct, especially knowing these night elves continue unbroken in their art from a period of night elf history where their arcane mastery exceeded that of every current Azerothian group.

    Yet I am the one spouting head canon. Honey, something isn’t headcanon just cos you say so. You basically spout your headcanon in this situation and just claim someone else’s is.

    You aren’t fooling anyone, except perhaps yourself. Now not everything you say is headcanon, but this is! saying the she ‘dralar are vastly inferior to the blood elves is headcanon. At the very least we just don’t know at the very most they should be well above Belves and around nightborne level give or take a little, and I would wager they are ahead of the nightborne - a wager or guess is not headcanon - perhaps you have been calling my guesses and wagers, or my desires and wishes headcanon - that is not what the term is used for FYI - I mean I tend to say when I am guessing or wishing you know what’s like should, could, if , maybe are good indicators that imply or give context that this is not a statement of fact.

    English not your first language? Or do you just choose not to read what you are responding to properly?
    23/10/2018 01:04Posted by Savoren
    I was the first one to point it out in one thread, many others after me have done the same. Even on this thread two other posters did, and you've even replied to one of them.


    i know, i thought they were curious, you bringing it up on each of my last 3 topics and doing so several times despite me having responded to you is harrassment and trolling. It is not related to the subject matter, and you've been responded too.

    23/10/2018 01:04Posted by Savoren
    Pointing out the cheap tricks you're trying to pull on a topic are neither derailing nor harassing. Posting those walls of text which are full of your low grade headcanon, on the other hand, can easily qualify for spamming.
    gosh you try my patience, which is why i have largely ignored you in the past, I'm so tempted to report you and have a CM judge your actions. You think it is easy or quick to type my posts? if you had bothered to read them, you woudln't even be repeating the same nonsense i disproved many topics ago. Instead you often come on and keep going on about the same thing repeatedly that has nothing to do with the subject matter being discussed, but me - I even openly invite in the previous thread anyone who has a problem or criticism with me to come to me personally but do not derail the thread , you completely ignored that, and jumped on it doing the same thing, showing civility and reason are things foreign and alien to you. Perhaps disciplinary action is the language you will understand . It's ridiculous, I poor my heart and effort into my topics not to mention the exorbitant amount of time i've spent in the game and it's lore, especially this particular race, taking the time to answer people that it seems fairly clear cannot be reasoned with and do not want to listen to anything but their own opinions - you can tell this because i often reply piece by piece to posts long or short, while most of the people i know don't return the courtesy, they just quote block and judging by the content of what they write, they clearly have not read what I've said. I conclude it is just a waste of my time to respond in so much detail, it's like i am throwing my pearls to swine who are only interested in hurling mud and filth around than actually have a conversation.
    23/10/2018 01:04Posted by Savoren
    Did you even read the second paragraph of the post you've quoted? I've already said it about Illidan and how he used to be a powerful mage before he was a demon hunter. You make it sound like being a mage is a prerequisite for becoming a demon hunter, it isn't and demon hunters have nothing to do with arcane.

    Read the very first part of this:

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Jace_Darkweaver

    It clearly states that demon hunters cannot use the arcane because of heavy fel influence. Makes sense as well, because arcane and fel are the opposite ends of the spectrum. If a demon hunter used to be a mage then it's only natural for them to retain their knowledge of the arcane, but they cannot use it.


    No, I didn't, you annoyed me so much, I just responded to that bit and left.

    Wow compendium says Illidan IS - not use to be, IS one of the most powerful sorcerors, and the novel Illidan SHOWS that fully infused with fel, after absorbing many demons, he is still using the arcane.

    Furthermore, Legion lord and Eredar, including Archimonde and Kil'jaeden seem to manage using the arcane quite well with the fel.

    Thridly, the inscription quests show you demon hunters using the arcane for runes they explain is a necessity to balance out the fel.

    Either one of 3 things is happening, either blizzard is just totally confused about their lore and mess it up themselves, or they could have simply forgotten the mountain of lore on the subject given that the casting of the Eredar and Archimonde not to mention Illidan are quite well known. Or they are trying to show us something else, like a little more detail of part of the process or journey a demon hunter can take.

    The only conclusion I can reach is that, Jace is a particular individual that has trouble using the arcane with fel - it could be something that requries a bit more training so more powerful individuals can manage it, or he is still early on yet, and hasn't fully balanced out.
    Allari the Soulbinder also used to be a Mage before she took the Illidari path. She can't use the arcane either.

    It's a Demon Hunter trait...they are so warped with Fel magic, considering they eat a demon's heart, that they will never be able to wield the weaker arcane again.

    Coupled with the fact that they wouldn't want to. They are the weapons against evil forces. Arcane usage would be sparingly used at best.
    Also, any Magi of the Illidari were all Blood Elves anyway, because the only few Night Elves that joined were all aiming to be Demon Hunters.

    Illidari Blood Elves warranted majestic warlocks, arcanists, demon hunters, blood wardens, blood knights, priests, assassins etc.
    But they aren't embracing it on the scale that your headcanon is telling you.

    What scale exactly is my "headcanon" saying they've embraced. You mis-reading and confusing desires for actual facts again Minairia? It's a problem I've picked up with you. When did I state night elves were embracing arcane on a huge scale? So you've been going along all these threads, mis-interpreting or fabricating things I've been saying that I actually haven't, just because you've got some weird mis-information in your head that I'm trying to steal blood elf magic - I'm talking about night elves becoming great again like they once were - you have gone off on a tangent.

    Desiring the scale of bar of arcane, druidsm and divine magic in the darnassian group be raised to that of the NPC, neutral and horde night elven groups and that the Darnassian group shoudl be the falgship bearers of the best of the kaldorei - the whole point being made is that they are not atm

    But I notice you've been constantly mis-reading what I'm saying. Well, this is why I respond to you. To correct you. I mean i shouldn't have to, really, you should read what I say properly and with the context the wall of texts provides before responding. But sigh, here we go again.

    23/10/2018 21:10Posted by Minairia
    Allari the Soulbinder also used to be a Mage before she took the Illidari path. She can't use the arcane either.

    It's a Demon Hunter trait...they are so warped with Fel magic, considering they eat a demon's heart, that they will never be able to wield the weaker arcane again.

    Coupled with the fact that they wouldn't want to. They are the weapons against evil forces. Arcane usage would be sparingly used at best.
    Also, any Magi of the Illidari were all Blood Elves anyway, because the only few Night Elves that joined were all aiming to be Demon Hunters.

    Illidari Blood Elves warranted majestic warlocks, arcanists, demon hunters, blood wardens, blood knights, priests, assassins etc.


    Except I'm not saying they are all prolific arcane users or the arcane is their main power used. But that they use fel and the arcane. Some of them like Illidan are powerful sorcerors too - yes cos in wow, you can also be more than one class, especially if you're legendary character.

    It's not my fault that you jumped to something I wasn't saying.

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