The Alliance, the Nightborne and High Mountain Tauren

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29/10/2018 00:32Posted by Retributor

two blood elf trolls - trolling every thread about horde favouritism and elven races added to horde. gg 10/10


Except it's the other way around. It's Alliance players that keep whining about elven races.

29/10/2018 02:32Posted by Evynstar

I can list a number of threads they pop up, but as you already know, there's no point.


Please don't, we do our best to keep your low grade headcanon contained within those threads, no need to try and spread it further.

29/10/2018 09:36Posted by Væghbæl
It's so sad to see people somehow believe and justify the bad storytelling of why the nightborne joined the Horde and keep saying "it's because Tyrande was mean" or "they're very close to blood elves in culture" or "Alliance just loves to cry because it's not their race" and such.

It is BAD STORYTELLING. It can't be justified. It doesn't make any sense. We simply have to accept it. Blizzard wanted to give another "pretty" race to the Horde, so the Horde also got night elves. End of story.


I have no doubt that it would've been amazing storytelling if Nightborne had joined the Alliance despite the hostile attitude of Tyrande, lived as lower class citizens and wasted their lives in effort to prove themselves to Tyrande and rest of the Alliance.

Except it's the other way around. It's Alliance players that keep whining about elven races.


Dont worry, soon we will have some fresh air, with new topics like:
"Vulpera on Horde side have no sense! we didnt genocide them!"
"Why Sethrak are no playable in Alliance we had 1 quest with them"
"Horde got Vulpera and Alliance got ........ Its not fair!"
"Zandalari racial are OP"
Just wait 4 days, blizzcon is coming :P
29/10/2018 13:15Posted by Beliarh

Just wait 4 days, blizzcon is coming :P


I've seen them seriously complain about Mag'har racials being OP, nothing ever will surprise me after that.
29/10/2018 13:15Posted by Beliarh

Except it's the other way around. It's Alliance players that keep whining about elven races.


Dont worry, soon we will have some fresh air, with new topics like:
"Vulpera on Horde side have no sense! we didnt genocide them!"
"Why Sethrak are no playable in Alliance we had 1 quest with them"
"Horde got Vulpera and Alliance got ........ Its not fair!"
"Zandalari racial are OP"
Just wait 4 days, blizzcon is coming :P

To be fair, so far, the alliance side has been pretty boring. We got a continent that is pretty much just populated by humans, and the enviroment is pretty much the same (Forests, Forests, and Mountains).
Meanwhile, on the horde side, 3 different exotic races, with 3 different enviroments (jungle, swamp and desert).
Alliance players are whinning, and i especially target the comment about the Sethrak joining the Alliance, because...its so boring in this side.
Not to mention, story wise, the Horde has also been a lot more interesting, because its where all the conflict is. Meanwhile, here in the Alliance side, we're all BFF's who serve our Soyboy king...
29/10/2018 12:54Posted by Evynstar
If you made them because you genuinely love the race, say so, and you can genuine love a race, but still have your heart with principally one race.


That's a tricky one. There are a few story types of genre that really appeal to me, Post Apocalyptic, and Resistance against a monolithic force, or perseverance against destruction, which should explain why my Blood Elves, Gnome and Draenei grabbed me. Humans are easier, my Human main is basically a character from one of my favourite novels "All Quiet on the Western Front" but as a slight twist, she's still an old soldier, with the wrinkles and all, but she's female. I love the hypercapitalist idea of Goblins, but wanted mine to be something different, he's basically Don Quixote. He lost his marbles when Kezan was destroyed, and lost his family, and now rides the lands seeking to protect maidens, and prove that a Goblin can become a Paladin. He's not. He's a Bruiser who used to work for Gallywix who got all his 'Knightly conduct' from reading trash novels about chivalry.. Janda'zin used to be a fierce warrior in his youth, who commanded the elements, till hubris meant he fell over a cliff, and suffered an injury he could not come back from, he is lame, and these days is a Teacher, and proudly scarifies those whelps who make it to adulthood, to mark their age.
Gallery Fitzjinx is a GCO Tunnel Rat. One of those Gnomes who went in, through the access ducts of Gnomeregan, going against the Troggs, fighting an enemy around five times your body mass, in cramped tunnels lit only by the goggles on your eyes, waiting to hear the screams of fellow team mates as they get taken down. Someone had to get the power on, so that S.A.F.E could move in.....

So yeah, I love all my characters, Alliance and Horde alike, they're great fun!

I could go on, but essentially, yes
The Nightborne are Highborne, so they went with their fellow High Bornes the Blood Elves.

Why would they join with Lower Caste tree dwellers?
29/10/2018 13:46Posted by Arcadius
The Nightborne are Highborne, so they went with their fellow High Bornes the Blood Elves.

Why would they join with Lower Caste tree dwellers?


those lower cast tree dwellers pushed the legion back and put an end to azsharas tyranny. and there are highborne in night elven society already since cata if im not mistaken. must be one of those forsaken that is missing a brain. such a shame
29/10/2018 17:08Posted by Karrisima
29/10/2018 13:46Posted by Arcadius
The Nightborne are Highborne, so they went with their fellow High Bornes the Blood Elves.

Why would they join with Lower Caste tree dwellers?


those lower cast tree dwellers pushed the legion back and put an end to azsharas tyranny. and there are highborne in night elven society already since cata if im not mistaken. must be one of those forsaken that is missing a brain. such a shame


Aszhara defeated herself, they would have failed abysmally if Rhonin and Korialstrasz were not there in the past

the Shen'dralar are part of the Alliance now, they're weak though - having spent those 10k years siphoning from a demon to regain immortality,

Blood Elves only need to be exposed to atmospheric energy and you guys peg them as evil,

Night Elves destroy the world with Arcane and literally suck the life from demon for thousands of years and you all just casually sweep that under the rug

Night Elves can't handle the Arcane, which is why it was outlawed,

the Sunwell cannot handle the Void which is why it was outlawed

the Arcane race of the Alliance is Human(or Gnome) which is why you don't need Nightborne
29/10/2018 13:34Posted by Brigante
29/10/2018 12:54Posted by Evynstar
If you made them because you genuinely love the race, say so, and you can genuine love a race, but still have your heart with principally one race.


That's a tricky one. There are a few story types of genre that really appeal to me, Post Apocalyptic, and Resistance against a monolithic force, or perseverance against destruction, which should explain why my Blood Elves, Gnome and Draenei grabbed me. Humans are easier, my Human main is basically a character from one of my favourite novels "All Quiet on the Western Front" but as a slight twist, she's still an old soldier, with the wrinkles and all, but she's female. I love the hypercapitalist idea of Goblins, but wanted mine to be something different, he's basically Don Quixote. He lost his marbles when Kezan was destroyed, and lost his family, and now rides the lands seeking to protect maidens, and prove that a Goblin can become a Paladin. He's not. He's a Bruiser who used to work for Gallywix who got all his 'Knightly conduct' from reading trash novels about chivalry.. Janda'zin used to be a fierce warrior in his youth, who commanded the elements, till hubris meant he fell over a cliff, and suffered an injury he could not come back from, he is lame, and these days is a Teacher, and proudly scarifies those whelps who make it to adulthood, to mark their age.
Gallery Fitzjinx is a GCO Tunnel Rat. One of those Gnomes who went in, through the access ducts of Gnomeregan, going against the Troggs, fighting an enemy around five times your body mass, in cramped tunnels lit only by the goggles on your eyes, waiting to hear the screams of fellow team mates as they get taken down. Someone had to get the power on, so that S.A.F.E could move in.....

So yeah, I love all my characters, Alliance and Horde alike, they're great fun!

I could go on, but essentially, yes

So why do you almost always post on this one? And why are you so against alliance having playable high elves? Were you opposed to void elves?

Nothing in orcs, night elves or forsaken? not a fan of vamps, zombies or dark elves? NElves are 100% post apocalyptic - they are first shown in a post apocalyptic stage they have stayed in while undergoing their vital mission of vigil which ends in the installment they first appear in. And pretty much live in that even though they make progress in wow. Legion is post apocalyptic kaldorei world in finer detail, with only one bastion of civilization remaining that is under siege by demons (Suramar) while everything is falling to corruption and what little they had is threatened with annhilation (thinking of the entire race here, not just the horde night elves or the alliance ones). Why don't you like them or the Forsaken too who are also your post apocalypse group and we've just witnessed their first apocalypse around the same time as the high elves.

In fact is there any wow racial faction not in a post apocalypse state?
27/10/2018 00:25Posted by Leymaiden
The Vulpera genocide next patch can't come fast enough so that you people stop acting high and mighty about the Alliance "morals".

Sylvannas and Nathanos know truly what the Alliance represents. They were both part of it at some point.


Like they need the vilpera for that. I already got a litzle in ally war campaign. What’s the first you do? Kill civilian archeologists. Then exiled zandalari just because they are zandalari. That’s murder just because they were born the wrong species.
27/10/2018 13:59Posted by Deathmidget
Let me put this in simple terms then (and Thrall doesn't have anything to do with this, I never mentioned him, you did. What I say below is true for the Horde under all of its warchiefs).

this is all without value judgments, I don't care about the political arrangements within both factions

- The Horde is a militaristic dictatorship. It has one supreme leader and everyone falls under this Warchief. This, to many, makes it possible for them to be much closer to each other than the Alliance, as evidenced by (amongst others) the blood oath.

- The Alliance is just that, an alliance. The various parties are autonomous but band together, mostly under the leadership of Stormwind because they are the largest and most influential of the members.

- Whether or not you like one more than the other, it is undeniable that you have more freedom to dissent under the flag of the Alliance than you have under the flag of the Horde, that's just the way their factions are built.

therefore, what you said before about the Nightborne having no freedom to express their culture as part of the Alliance does not make much sense to me, even if I like them as race and as part of the Horde.


Didn’t Varian invade Ironforge and set up a nie government form for the dwarves? That’s pretty imperialistic. The Horde also has the character of an alliance. A defensive pact inder a supreme military leader wich dies not involve him or herself in the domestic politics of every member Civilization.

And yes, the horde started the war, but only from the perspectives that a good offense is a good defense.
29/10/2018 17:54Posted by Evynstar
Nothing in orcs, night elves or forsaken? not a fan of vamps, zombies or dark elves?


Hah, I was a goth in my misspent youth, so yes, very into that stuff, Vamps, zombies and Dark Elves, I simply didn't want to bang on even longer than I had, but as you ask, My Orc is an Original world Frostwolf, who was one of the children brought through the Dark Portal, he's rather sickeningly traditional, like a younger Saurfang, but called Sengann Eyehammer because his true skill is with a bow, not a sword or axe. If he sets an eye on a foe, they fall. My Night Elf, Keanagh Moonspear is a Druid. I've not played him for a bit, I'm still trying to work out how he will have reacted to Teldrassil burning, He will probably become a creature of nature's wrath. Nature, Red in tooth and claw, but I am worried that might have become a cliché by now. My Forsaken is also a DK, Inspector Auberon DeGrasse, a police officer In life, and still one in death, he reserves his causing of pain to criminals he 'arrests', like a more pleasant version of 'Judge Death' from 2000AD, in that if you have not committed a crime, you are safe, if you have, he will hurt you, and kill you. He enjoys gentlemanly pursuits, and is a keen gardener, growing roses in his leisure time, he always has a fresh rose on his lapel.

29/10/2018 17:54Posted by Evynstar
So why do you almost always post on this one?


For the sake of transparency? I am GM of a Guild on AD with this character, and this is my main (Yes, I know I have a Draenei at 120, but that's because I am taking levelling slowly on this character, and really wanted to start getting Dark Irons on Alliance side). I am a pretty firm believer in standing by what you say, and by constantly using the same character to post on, I am being fairly honest about who I am, in terms of people's past experience of my posts. Basically, not hiding anything. In fact the only time I have ever posted on a different character, either here, or on the AD forums, have been when I logged in my human character, to write a short bit of fic/bump the guild thread that she was in, otherwise I always post on Brigs here.

29/10/2018 17:54Posted by Evynstar
And why are you so against alliance having playable high elves? Were you opposed to void elves?


Have you actually read one of my posts in full? I mean I know I type a lot of words, a failing of mine, but I am not against Alliance having playable High Elves? I've not said that once in that whole thread! I've even offered constructive ideas as to how the racials could work, where their hub could be, how they could have their own 'gig' without taking away from Blood Elves. I am -Pro- High Elves being playable.

I will argue with people who come out with rubbish like "High Elves are all rangers so should have warpaints and muscles", but the idea of High Elves being playable on Alliance I think is just fine and dandy.

I never objected to Void Elves. Mainly because no one knew where the hell they came from and what was going on. There wasn't really much to work with in terms of 'objecting' to them, as nobody simply had enough information. I'm not keen on them, I think Blizzard have went a bit 'New Toys!' syndrome with them, but then equally I'm not so great with Lightforged Draenei, I mean, what societal niche do they fill? Is my Draenei Vindicator suddenly a second class Vindicator when a Lightforged is around? Where do they fit into things?

We just don't know. That is one area I will say that Horde have it better. We know that Highmountain Tauren are basically just Tauren, we know that Nightborne were Highborne, have a lot in common with Sin'dorei, and like hanging out there.

I can get Void Elves when it comes to the Alliance, a bit sketchy, they don't make a lot of lore sense, but they're there, so...eh...

I have no idea how Lightforged Draenei fit into the Alliance, when it comes to 'normal' Draenei.

However, I have to say, I have not unlocked them as a race, it is quite possible this is explained in their starting racial questing, if it is, I would be grateful for any clues on that, as I quite want to start playing Nabaal, my Draenei Vindicator again, but not until I know how he should react to Lightforged...

Please tell me T'paartos dies. Else the Lightforged are a joke.....
29/10/2018 09:36Posted by Væghbæl
It's so sad to see people somehow believe and justify the bad storytelling of why the nightborne joined the Horde and keep saying "it's because Tyrande was mean" or "they're very close to blood elves in culture" or "Alliance just loves to cry because it's not their race" and such.

It is BAD STORYTELLING. It can't be justified. It doesn't make any sense. We simply have to accept it. Blizzard wanted to give another "pretty" race to the Horde, so the Horde also got night elves. End of story.


It is totally justified and was forshadowed ever since Argus. Just because you are salty, they ain't alliance, doesn't make it stupid.
29/10/2018 20:05Posted by Erevien
29/10/2018 09:36Posted by Væghbæl
It's so sad to see people somehow believe and justify the bad storytelling of why the nightborne joined the Horde and keep saying "it's because Tyrande was mean" or "they're very close to blood elves in culture" or "Alliance just loves to cry because it's not their race" and such.

It is BAD STORYTELLING. It can't be justified. It doesn't make any sense. We simply have to accept it. Blizzard wanted to give another "pretty" race to the Horde, so the Horde also got night elves. End of story.


It is totally justified and was forshadowed ever since Argus. Just because you are salty, they ain't alliance, doesn't make it stupid.


It was foreshadowed before that, as we had Nightborne actively praising the Blood Elves' help and their courage and determination during the campaign in Suramar.
29/10/2018 18:56Posted by Kilean
Didn’t Varian invade Ironforge and set up a nie government form for the dwarves? That’s pretty imperialistic.


Well to be fair, the Bronzebeards were the ones who were part of the Alliance and they were beings oppressed (rightly or not) by Moira, so that was what cause him to interfere.

29/10/2018 18:56Posted by Kilean
A defensive pact inder a supreme military leader wich dies not involve him or herself in the domestic politics of every member Civilization.


The Horde is much more of a family though, and the leader has lorewise way more power than the Alliance.

---

All that said, the differences between the government types of the alliance and the horde are interesting and neither one is morally superior to the other. I merely debated Leymaiden's assertion that the Nightborne would suffer under the Alliance due to Tyrande, which I think would have been unlikely.
29/10/2018 20:35Posted by Deathmidget
I merely debated Leymaiden's assertion that the Nightborne would suffer under the Alliance due to Tyrande, which I think would have been unlikely.


She accepted the Highborne but craptalks the Nightborne. I can understand Thalyssra for not wanting to be part of that deal, where Tyrande would probally take her city away from here eventually.
Yeah, the Night Elves need to play to their strengths, one of which was -never- Diplomacy. Why are people so shocked that Tyrande is bad at it? If I was Anduin I'd be fuming right now.

"FFS Vereesa, you had one job, one job, don't let Tyrande talk to johnny foreigner, instead, if you could put in a good word, that might work, because we know the Sin'dorei will try and sweet talk them, just whatever you do, don't let Tyrande talk to them, she has awful people skills!"

Vereesa returns and does whatever she does until the Blood Elves do something and she is wheeled out again "Yeah well..."

Anduin nods eagerly "It went well? You tried to impress upon them the legitimacy of our cause"

Vereesa: "Not...Exactly...."

Anduin "When you say ….not Exactly, what do you mean?"

Vereesa "Well I just kind of...left, we didn't really chat to Thalyssra"

Anduin goes ashen pale..... "You left Tyrande there, unsupervised?"

Vereesa "They killed muh husband"

Anduin "No, that was a couple of expansions ago, you're supposed to be competent again now, remember? Are you saying, you left an incredibly powerful -Arcane Elven- race in a situation where the only two people talking to them are Tyrande and Liadrin?"

Vereesa "Sort of, a bit, as in...yes"

Anduin rubs his eyes "Amazing, and people mock me for being young and naive"

Tyrande strides in "Excellent news High King, the Nightborne have shown their true colours, and now side with the perfidious Horde!"

Anduin blinks "How is this excellent news, how did this come to pass, did you talk to them?"

Tyrande looks evasive "A little bit"

Anduin "Oh Gods, you did, didn't you, we've -had- this discussion, stop talking to people! You only antagonise them!"

Tyrande "No, there was that time when...."

……….Tumbleweed rolls past....................

Tyrande "No, I've got nothing"

Anduin "Is this an elaborate way of saying that in an incredibly dicey political situation you walked in and verbally punched someone?"

Tyrande "A little"

Anduin "And stop me if I am wrong here, but was Liadrin a little 'nicer' than you were, and had something to actually offer?"

Tyrande "One could say her approach was more politic, beneficial and understanding of the Nightborne's plight, but I thought I made a very good point"

Anduin "I know I am going to regret this, but what was that point?"

Tyrande "I might have compared her to Elisande"

Anduin counts to ten... then calmly says "Tyrande, can you go somewhere very far away. Now..."
27/10/2018 02:11Posted by Aallorah
27/10/2018 00:25Posted by Leymaiden
The Vulpera genocide next patch can't come fast enough so that you people stop acting high and mighty about the Alliance "morals".

Sylvannas and Nathanos know truly what the Alliance represents. They were both part of it at some point.

Unrelated. OP's point isnt that Alliance is better or anything at all, it is the fact that both nightborne and highmountain taurens were helped by both alliance and horde, yet both sided with the horde.
HT i understand, but the Nightborne were helped by two elven alliance armies, and one elven horde army.
Next expansion, the nightborne participate on the genocide of the very elves that helped the nightborne.


Why do you understand the Highmoutain Taurens tbh? In the Huln scenario the Highmountain fights off the demons with the aid of Night Elves. HT's actually have such allied history with Night Elves, and nothing with the zombie Queen who they sided with. But just look at the lore recently, and story, why do people even talk about it, random !@#$ just happens at high pace.
29/10/2018 22:29Posted by Brigante

Tyrande "I might have compared her to Elisande"

Anduin counts to ten... then calmly says "Tyrande, can you go somewhere very far away. Now..."


Such a shame Anduin asked Tyrande to leave so soon, she didn't even have a chance to tell him about the part where she compared Thalyssra to Azshara.
29/10/2018 22:47Posted by Savoren
Such a shame Anduin asked Tyrande to leave so soon, she didn't even have a chance to tell him about the part where she compared Thalyssra to Azshara.


Imagine that conversation...

"So yeah, I compared her to Azshara"

"Why?"

"Well, she was Kaldorei, and magically powerful, and had a cult of personality around her, "

Anduin steeples his fingers "Yes, please do go on"

"She did not deal well with dissent or outsiders"

Anduin nods "This is fascinating, please, continue"

"And she did not dress practically"

Anduin looks at Tyrande's high heels, before frowning.
"We have a word, in common, it is called 'Irony', you may wish to look it up Aszhar-Sorry, Tyrande."

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