R/WoW Interview story related

Story
Hey guys, just seen this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9usbtb/rwow_blizzcon_interview/
and want to quote the Story-part for descussion here:

  • The big picture arc is definitely laid out well in advance (months/years)
  • [Re: Tides of Vengeance cinematic] “…Horde players will have a questline where they are tracking down what became of Saurfang, and Alliance players will learn his mysterious escape from -- one of the Horde heroes right in their midst. And try to understand how that happened, how does...the Horde escape from under the nose of the Alliance…”
  • “As creators of the story, there's more than paying attention to what the community thinks of the story you're telling and what is effective and what isn't, what resonates emotionally. I think - Alex Afrasiabi, our creative director, has spoken on this a number of times in the last couple months and a part of telling a story involves invoking emotional highs and lows and there are some things that are deliberately meant to be a little bit frustrating - a little bit upsetting to some.”
  • Goes on to reference Game of Thrones, regarding emotional response and people saying “I’m never watching this again” after certain episodes - that emotional response is something they look for, but they have to balance highs and lows.
  • When they release content on the PTR and players are confused about storylines, that’s when they’re more likely to take feedback in real time and change things. Ultimately they feel that they need to trust creative impulses within the team and be story-focused, but they do listen to feedback.


  • Especially the last point is great. And we all have seen it in action (Tyrande may thank you here)

    I am a bit confused by point 3. Lows and Highs are great If Blizzard follows its agenda and offers both factions their lows and highs. But at the moment both factions are at their low.

    Lot of Horde players have their low because of:
      beeing mindless villian again,
      beeing forced into inernal conflicts again.
      Getting own capital raided again,
      and even wins feel like low because of beeing a contributor to genocide
      and so on.


    The alliance list of lows is at least as large as hordes (as far as I, as non alliance player, understand). Just to write some of them down (dont judge me by this points, as said, im not an alliance player):
      nelf treatment
      incompitent leaders
      completely irrational fightplans (hey the enemy is on the ground, lets run away!)
      goody two shoeses image
      (and i guess much more)


    So both factions need their high (soon?) but how could blizzard give it to both without giving the opposite factions a low? No Idea.
    Or does blizzard count burnig the tree as Horde high? and retreating after (nearly) win in horde city as alliance high? I hope not.
    I wish I could trust them. but as things are right now i don't feel i can
    Sadly I kind of think that it is already too late to get out of this mess...

    They should have never used the Horde to initiate the faction war, because they have done that way too often already and didn't have 1 reason to attack the Alliance.

    The Alliance on the other hand had plenty of reason to attack the Horde (be it bigotry, revenge or the mere fear of Sylvanas).

    But instead they attack us because they fear... ANDUIN??? WTF? Out of all people there are to fear, they fear freaking mr Holybones?

    They didn't even need to change the story all that much...
    The Alliance leading a crusade against Lordaeron out of nowhere and the Horde retaliating by burning Teldrassil would improve the story quite a bit.

    Then they wouldn't have needed to ruin Saurfang for another lame revolution storyline, as he would have been forced to work with Sylvanas, because the Alliance is out for blood...

    09/11/2018 08:13Posted by Moradur
    nelf treatment
    incompitent leaders
    completely irrational fightplans (hey the enemy is on the ground, lets run away!)
    goody two shoeses image
    (and i guess much more)

    I think the main overarching issue we Alliance players have, is that we are sick and tired of being the Horde's plotdevice. Our faction feels like we are just here so some Horde players can have their lame Saurfang story.

    This isn't Horde vs Alliance
    This is Saurfang Horde vs Sylvanas Horde

    PS: I fully agree with your post btw, my tone might be a little passive aggressive since the current story development annoys me. I fully agree with the Horde issues as well.
    09/11/2018 08:30Posted by Sylanna
    I wish I could trust them. but as things are right now i don't feel i can

    Personaly, I think he was honest. The problem (my point of view) is sort of complete disconnect between the comunity and the writers.
    They think:
    "Hey lets write a great story with highs and lows in it. We need a villain, we need heros, we need a twist for the later story development"
    ... and while the whole picture might show us a beautiful flower, the community is left with only one small, weird looking part visible for months. And this cycle repeates for a year.
    While blizzard wants to show us a beautiful picture, they forget, that we have to live with, at time, weird looking parts of it.
    09/11/2018 08:51Posted by Anouk

    I think the main overarching issue we Alliance players have, is that we are sick and tired of being the Horde's plotdevice. Our faction feels like we are just here so some Horde players can have their lame Saurfang story.


    Thats realy funny, because on the horde side its complete the opposed mess.
    We are tired of beeing Alliance' plotdevice. Our Warchiefs make things for reasons to give the alliance the reason to rescue the world again :D

    Absolutely not trying to offend or to say horde needs more love then alliance. Simply ...interesting... to see how unsatisfactory the situation for both factions is

    EDIT:
    09/11/2018 08:51Posted by Anouk

    PS: I fully agree with your post btw, my tone might be a little passive aggressive since the current story development annoys me. I fully agree with the Horde issues as well.

    I must have missed were you were passive aggressive, sorry ;D
    I hope the big pictures will make alot of sense. The problem right now its not the epicness of the story, but the lack of information. Maybe in the big picture its totally logic why NE join the forsaken or why Sylvanas does this and that... but right now, those pieces we have are totally not logical making the story bitter so far.
    And even if a delightful dessert-cake (big picture)awaits at the end, I am not sure my stomach can enjoy it after eating tremedous amount of cups of pure flour, sugar and cacao (if you eat that pure it tastes like the worst thing on earth) till I get the backed and complete dessert...
    Thats realy funny, because on the horde side its complete the opposed mess.
    We are tired of beeing Alliance' plotdevice. Our Warchiefs make things for reasons to give the alliance the reason to rescue the world again :D

    Not how I experience it, since we never really rescued the world as the Alliance, but then again; I can't really tell since I refuse to play Horde.

    Absolutely not trying to offend or to say horde needs more love then alliance. Simply ...interesting... to see how unsatisfactory the situation for both factions is

    Understandable.
    I'm certainly not able to fully understand the Horde struggle, just like a Horde player wouldn't understand the Alliance struggle.

    All we can do is to support each other by pointing out our own problems with the lore and show solidarity towards the other.

    This thread is exactly what we need more of in the story community. Instead we get whiny finger-pointing from biased red and blues.
    I'm not really sure if WoW is the right medium for the kind of storytelling they claim to aim for. Story-patches come once a quarter at the most, that is a long time to leave the players disappointed. Game of Thrones is really no comparison. Yes, it hits you with events that are hard to swallow, but it doesn't just end on them and leave you there. For every sudden execution there is a dragonbaby born or a villain dies a satisfyingly gruesome death.
    09/11/2018 10:36Posted by Wimbert
    I'm not really sure if WoW is the right medium for the kind of storytelling they claim to aim for. Story-patches come once a quarter at the most, that is a long time to leave the players disappointed. Game of Thrones is really no comparison. Yes, it hits you with events that are hard to swallow, but it doesn't just end on them and leave you there. For every sudden execution there is a dragonbaby born or a villain dies a satisfyingly gruesome death.


    I never saw the show but read all the books, and if we go by that, between releases it was a hell of a tease and sometimes I thought "f*** this! You cant make me wait 2 years till I know if xy is really dead or not!" or "This doesnt make sense ! Why do I have to wait till the next book to see the whole picture!". To the books it is kinda comperable to the patch waiting time. I read them at release so I waited a hell of a time... it was like self flagellation
    09/11/2018 08:51Posted by Anouk

    I think the main overarching issue we Alliance players have, is that we are sick and tired of being the Horde's plotdevice. Our faction feels like we are just here so some Horde players can have their lame Saurfang story.


    Thats realy funny, because on the horde side its complete the opposed mess.
    We are tired of beeing Alliance' plotdevice. Our Warchiefs make things for reasons to give the alliance the reason to rescue the world again :D

    Absolutely not trying to offend or to say horde needs more love then alliance. Simply ...interesting... to see how unsatisfactory the situation for both factions is

    [/quote]

    ^ This.
    09/11/2018 10:45Posted by Xiaopaw
    To the books it is kinda comperable to the patch waiting time.

    Since the third book they all have taken 5+ years. That is so far from one another that you have to be reeeeaaally determined to hold on to your frustration that long.
    09/11/2018 10:53Posted by Wimbert
    09/11/2018 10:45Posted by Xiaopaw
    To the books it is kinda comperable to the patch waiting time.

    Since the third book they all have taken 5+ years. That is so far from one another that you have to be reeeeaaally determined to hold on to your frustration that long.


    I went trough all stages of denial...except the "acceptance" part felt like defeat... only to repeat the cycle when a new book came out
    I like the story so far.
    I don't know what will happen but i think there are some issues that are not entirely story related.
    Mistrust toward Blizzard, that's mainly Blizzards fault.
    People making speculations-predictions and thinking that the story will go accordingly.(it is SoO 2. That's a prediction we don't know if it will go that way)
    People missing key points of the narrative or don't fully understand what the implication are.

    As for speculation about what might happen
    Saurfang succeeds with his rebellion without Alliance involvement. Horde handles Sylvanas internally.
    Sylvanas redeems herself. Cant see how they can do it.
    Third option which is the most interested is plot twist. At some point it is reveled that Sylvanas is controlled by a third party (Arthas, Valkyrs, Old Gods, The true enemy, there are a lot of options and there are hints for this).

    i think we must let them tell the story and decide after.
    In my opinion it might be the best WOW story so far. I hope they deliver.
    But then again
    This is war. Hope fails. Soon i'll understand.
    This interview only re-iterates my belief that the devs simply shrug aside the criticisms of the story as people being upset, and actually believe the story is a great one internally. I take great issue with the comparisons with Game of Thrones. The twists and turns that occur in the ASOIAF novels were carefully seeded in and built towards by GRRM. Something like the Burning of Teldrassil is not even remotely comparable.
    At this point I don't know that to think. Or they are so full of themselves to lose contact with reality and they genuinely believe that the story is good, or they are just trolling us.

    They even compared BfA with Game of Thrones but Game of Thrones has a solid narrative, a consistent and coherent plot, complex and well developed charaters.
    In Game of Thrones emotional response is built by quality narrative, and it is caused by involvement in good developed characthers and events.

    Instead, for what I have seen in the forums, many of Warcaft palyers reacitions are caused by bad storytelling and/or lack of faith in Blizzard skills.
    They managed to do all possible narrative mistakes in BfA: plot holes, inconsistent characters, illogical developments, retcons...and even when they wrote somethig reasonable they developed it in the most simple, plain and unrefined way.

    If BfA has the same quality of Game of Thrones, my little brother's doodles are The Birth of Venus by Botticelli. XD

    PS. My first comment here. Sorry for my poor English.
    10/11/2018 02:34Posted by Eriù

    PS. My first comment here. Sorry for my poor English.

    Are you kidding? Your english is better then most...

    And I agree with you!
    Did they really make comparisons to GoT? The ego.

    Blizzard's being quite self-reverent and circle-wanking its own popularity and convoluted lore.

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