Soulwell and Summoning Stone for warlocks

Classic Discussion
12/11/2018 06:57Posted by Argoníl
12/11/2018 06:45Posted by Keala
...

They're not balance changes, learn the terminology.


Doesn't matter, it's still changing the class. They said it won't get changed, independetly if it's for QoL/Gameplay/other. You need to get over it.
You go on with this when clearly you are in a minority Argonìl. Here's a joke for you:

A man is driving down Highway 55. He turns on the radio to hear the news.
"We want to warn everybody on Highyway 55; a car is heading in the wrong direction. Please be careful".
The man turns off the radio and says "One? There's hundereds of them".
12/11/2018 07:09Posted by Keala
12/11/2018 06:57Posted by Argoníl
...
They're not balance changes, learn the terminology.


Doesn't matter, it's still changing the class. They said it won't get changed, independetly if it's for QoL/Gameplay/other. You need to get over it.

Except there's already auto-loot and Greater Blessings from 1.9, and you don't seem to have anything more to say than an NPC.
I used to just refuse to summon people at the start of the raid. HS for some but mostly get shards on the trash so everyone has one by the boss. !@#$ hanging around in felwood for hakf an hour pre-raid...
12/11/2018 07:37Posted by Argoníl
Except there's already auto-loot and Greater Blessings from 1.9


Except both are still within vanilla, auto-loot was already there, you just had to shift click the mob to auto loot it (WOW! what a change right?), how are 1.9 blessings a change exactly? #Nochanges has always said anything within the scope of vanilla was a nochange.

Guess what? Loot trading, Sharding (which is why almost the entirety of US and EU forums are talking about these 2 right now) and your BS too is not within the vanilla scope.

12/11/2018 07:37Posted by Argoníl
and you don't seem to have anything more to say than an NPC.


Look who's talking, the brat that keeps throwing a tantrum when his father told him "no more candies".
On a serious note.

Back in the summer 2005 I remember spending quite alot of time in the Blackrock Mountain. Many did. As this place was one of the furthest places away from Orgrimmar, most people acually had their hearthstone bound to the Inn in Kargath.
By having it there, we could get to the place of action fast when we did BRD/UBRS/LBRS but also later for MC/BWL. It also ment we had a fast way of getting in the middle of Eastern Kingdoms, as Undercity and Grom'Gol are far north/south.
It stayed like this quite a while.

This also ment that Mages were more or less requiered to drop portals to Orgrimmar after a dungeon/raid, because we had no other fast way of getting "back to town". I remember poor Mages always making sure to be the last to stay to make sure we all went into the portal. I also remember the other side, how screwed we were if a Mage would take teleport instead of portal...

Not beeing able to get to a dungeon/raid/hometown in a easy way, specially not for 40 people, was a big part of the game (and made Mages valuable for more than water, but thats another story). This is to understand how little things are connected.

Now, sure we did summon players who had hearthstoned to Kargath and forgot something, but we are talking about a very few players. You see, getting a summon or a Healthstone back then was, and I hope still will be, luxury. You were respected as a Warlock, people would in very rare occasions beg for a summon - becuase they and the guild knew that you needed thoose precious Soul Shards (which you had farmd in Azshara preraid) for important things like Soul Stones and Healthstones (becuase as we know, Soul Shards didnt grow on trees).

If Warlocks get the ability to just pull a Soulwell or a Summoning Stone out of their backpocket, it would mean that this luxury disappears. All of a sudden Healthstones aren't just for the Tanks and Healers during really important tries, but for everybody - all time -for all tries.
People wont be greatful for a summon, they will demand it and see it as mandatory. Why have a Hearthstone in Kargath when the guild Warlock can get there with two others and summon 40 people like it was nothing. Not only that, but the summon can take place pretty much at the entrance of a dungeon/raid, which takes away alot from the Blackrock PvP (ganking players on their way to Blackrock Mountain is what many PvPers live for).

TD;DR. Getting to a dungeon/raid and back to town should be hard and a adventure in it's own. Getting a summon, Healthstone and a Soul Stone should be a luxury bonus, not a mandatory thing. Small things like this is what create value in a class and in a RPG.

I, for one, refuse to be other peoples "LFG"-mechanic in Vanilla.

Cheers
12/11/2018 07:03Posted by Argoníl
12/11/2018 05:27Posted by Chromean
This thread is ridiculous. No to any kind of QoL. If you want to play warlock suck it up and farm those shards. Or don't play, I don't care. Just stop with these silly demands. They have already stated that "it's not their game to change"

If it's our game to change, then we can add the summoning stone. The question is simple: Do you want to sit and wait 30 minutes every raid night because of this alone and possibly lose some loot to the unnecessarily hard-working DKP-earning warlock, or do you think that standing around perhaps isn't the most integral part of the "classic experience"? If we have the power to make such a change, then not doing so is unreasonable. It's not like you also want lengthened battleground queues for that authentic feel, lol. And it's not like we'd get LFR and stuff just because we get summoning stones, let's be real here.


Or people could just do as most guilds required back in classic - be ready outside raid instance 15 mins. before 1st pull.

Then no one has to wait for a summon - brilliant i know - in reality, the slackers are the ones, who can't be arsed to move to the instance.
Haha, no.
11/11/2018 02:17Posted by Argoníl
11/11/2018 02:12Posted by Devilsknight
Stay in BfA and have a Soulwell, or go to Classic and be happy Soul Shards arent "conjured" in 1.12.

So let me get this straight. You acknowledge that it's an improvement, but you don't want it, because it's not from Vanilla? Are you serious?

I believe I speak on behalf of all warlocks when I say that we appreciate the summoning stone's ability to share the workload... summoning up to 37 players by yourself is not something that will be missed.
let me get this straight for u. u are the only one i have seen that wrote this and no one wants it because its not vanilla. if u wanna this go in bfa we want vanilla for what vanilla is. its the same as we say omg let paladin gives all buff at same time. but no one asking for it or let mage make food table well no one asking for it so why will they give something like that to wlock? vanilla is vanilla if u dont like it go play bfa.
12/11/2018 08:23Posted by Devilsknight
On a serious note.

Back in the summer 2005 I remember spending quite alot of time in the Blackrock Mountain. Many did. As this place was one of the furthest places away from Orgrimmar, most people acually had their hearthstone bound to the Inn in Kargath.
By having it there, we could get to the place of action fast when we did BRD/UBRS/LBRS but also later for MC/BWL. It also ment we had a fast way of getting in the middle of Eastern Kingdoms, as Undercity and Grom'Gol are far north/south.
It stayed like this quite a while.

This also ment that Mages were more or less requiered to drop portals to Orgrimmar after a dungeon/raid, because we had no other fast way of getting "back to town". I remember poor Mages always making sure to be the last to stay to make sure we all went into the portal. I also remember the other side, how screwed we were if a Mage would take teleport instead of portal...

Not beeing able to get to a dungeon/raid/hometown in a easy way, specially not for 40 people, was a big part of the game (and made Mages valuable for more than water, but thats another story). This is to understand how little things are connected.

Now, sure we did summon players who had hearthstoned to Kargath and forgot something, but we are talking about a very few players. You see, getting a summon or a Healthstone back then was, and I hope still will be, luxury. You were respected as a Warlock, people would in very rare occasions beg for a summon - becuase they and the guild knew that you needed thoose precious Soul Shards (which you had farmd in Azshara preraid) for important things like Soul Stones and Healthstones (becuase as we know, Soul Shards didnt grow on trees).

If Warlocks get the ability to just pull a Soulwell or a Summoning Stone out of their backpocket, it would mean that this luxury disappears. All of a sudden Healthstones aren't just for the Tanks and Healers during really important tries, but for everybody - all time -for all tries.
People wont be greatful for a summon, they will demand it and see it as mandatory. Why have a Hearthstone in Kargath when the guild Warlock can get there with two others and summon 40 people like it was nothing. Not only that, but the summon can take place pretty much at the entrance of a dungeon/raid, which takes away alot from the Blackrock PvP (ganking players on their way to Blackrock Mountain is what many PvPers live for).

TD;DR. Getting to a dungeon/raid and back to town should be hard and a adventure in it's own. Getting a summon, Healthstone and a Soul Stone should be a luxury bonus, not a mandatory thing. Small things like this is what create value in a class and in a RPG.

I, for one, refuse to be other peoples "LFG"-mechanic in Vanilla.

Cheers

Now this is the kind of comment I like to see. I was mostly vouching for the summoning stone anyway; I can see that soulwell isn't a good idea. But having the summoning stone would not remove the need for setting your Hearthstone or make it easier to get to cities. All of the things you're mentioning in defense of not having a summoning stone would not be affected, guilds will demand people are on the spot on raid time to get started faster, and with the duration of the summoning stone and a 3 shard cost, it wouldn't be a good idea to try to summon everyone anyway. It would just make it less annoying to have to summon the 8-10 slackers that will inevitably be late for every raid, you wouldn't even have to farm more shards after. And as for world PvP, those who want to have warlocks to summon everyone to the enemy faction's city, will bring warlocks with enough shards regardless.
<span class="truncated">...</span>
So let me get this straight. You acknowledge that it's an improvement, but you don't want it, because it's not from Vanilla? Are you serious?

I believe I speak on behalf of all warlocks when I say that we appreciate the summoning stone's ability to share the workload... summoning up to 37 players by yourself is not something that will be missed.
let me get this straight for u. u are the only one i have seen that wrote this and no one wants it because its not vanilla. if u wanna this go in bfa we want vanilla for what vanilla is. its the same as we say omg let paladin gives all buff at same time. but no one asking for it or let mage make food table well no one asking for it so why will they give something like that to wlock? vanilla is vanilla if u dont like it go play bfa.

Maybe I don't like BfA. Maybe I want to play Classic in its best incarnation. Heck, maybe I'd rather play the RPG version of WoW without the most stupid and unpolished game design choices, maybe I'll push to get my own Legacy servers! In the Burning Crusade, with soulwells and summoning stones and felguards and blackjack and hookers! Everyone knows TBC is where the cool kids were at. Screw you guys, I'm going home!
OP please pm me your b.net so I can avoid playing with you.
12/11/2018 09:52Posted by Lolretadin
OP please pm me your b.net so I can avoid playing with you.

No worries, I unsubbed months ago.
12/11/2018 09:35Posted by Argoníl
... let me get this straight for u. u are the only one i have seen that wrote this and no one wants it because its not vanilla. if u wanna this go in bfa we want vanilla for what vanilla is. its the same as we say omg let paladin gives all buff at same time. but no one asking for it or let mage make food table well no one asking for it so why will they give something like that to wlock? vanilla is vanilla if u dont like it go play bfa.

Maybe I don't like BfA. Maybe I want to play Classic in its best incarnation. Heck, maybe I'd rather play the RPG version of WoW without the most stupid and unpolished game design choices, maybe I'll push to get my own Legacy servers! In the Burning Crusade, with soulwells and summoning stones and felguards and blackjack and hookers! Everyone knows TBC is where the cool kids were at. Screw you guys, I'm going home!
well then classic wow isnt for u my friend. u just said it self.
OP, as the saying goes by where I come from : you're punching in the wind. Namely wasting your time.

As already explain Classic is about Vanilla, and its sole purpose is to bring that back as was. If you cannot comprehend that then you're looking for the wrong experience, which in no way is going to be changed just to please you. So stop trying to change people's mind, and more importantly accept the fact that their tastes and opinions don't match your own.
...
Maybe I don't like BfA. Maybe I want to play Classic in its best incarnation. Heck, maybe I'd rather play the RPG version of WoW without the most stupid and unpolished game design choices, maybe I'll push to get my own Legacy servers! In the Burning Crusade, with soulwells and summoning stones and felguards and blackjack and hookers! Everyone knows TBC is where the cool kids were at. Screw you guys, I'm going home!
well then classic wow isnt for u my friend. u just said it self.

What if the community had pushed Blizzard to make sure the game ran at as low FPS as back in the days, and you told them that's a stupid idea? Sorry, then classic WoW isn't for you my friend. It's the same logic. It's madness. I would probably rather play TBC but that's never coming. Classic was good too, but some things which you've all already heard of were just dumb. There's no good reason to defend the really dumb things, and if people weren't set on wanting no changes, then they'd appreciate some changes. Oldschool runescape voted to get features from the new version into the old and it's been great, and while that perhaps may not work for us, I'm sure there are some changes which the classic experience would benefit from having. We should review changes instead of saying no to all. Not gonna happen it seems. Have fun.
12/11/2018 10:21Posted by Argoníl
It's madness. I would probably rather play TBC but that's never coming. Classic was good too, but some things which you've all already heard of were just dumb. There's no good reason to defend the really dumb things, and if people weren't set on wanting no changes, then they'd appreciate some changes.


I'd rather play tbc too but this isn't the goal of this project, something I'm grateful for. And yes, people appreciated some changes in the past too and here we are now hoping those changes never came. Even the changes that looked so good back in TBC inevitably led to where bfa is now. If tbc comes as an expansion to classic, I'll be right up there asking for changes - because it went too far in some aspects.

12/11/2018 10:21Posted by Argoníl
Have fun.


Thank you, I will. You too!
11/11/2018 00:17Posted by Argoníl
Stop with these useless "I don't like it because nothing" arguments. Multi-thread optimizations weren't in Vanilla either but it sure as hell will be appreciated in Classic. Same goes for Soulwell and Summoning Stone, or Greater Blessings for paladins.


There is no argument “ I don’t like it because nothing”. The point is that QoL doesn’t belong in classic. Classic was immersive becuase it forced players to interact with the world and with each other for even the most trivial things. Retail is still there for you. Go and play that if you want QoL.
12/11/2018 07:29Posted by Devilsknight
You go on with this when clearly you are in a minority Argonìl. Here's a joke for you:

A man is driving down Highway 55. He turns on the radio to hear the news.
"We want to warn everybody on Highyway 55; a car is heading in the wrong direction. Please be careful".
The man turns off the radio and says "One? There's hundereds of them".


Don't be too sure about that, this forum looks like mostly an echo chamber of hardcore "classic is classic" who are very, very vocal. But the player base exists out of millions, most of them not even using this place. I don't even think developers look here for feedback, just external community managers.

Talking about the big markets, what about the asians, russians, latin-america. Do you think they all want the vanilla exactly as vanilla, have you even investigated those? I don't know either, but don't assume anything on majority/minority based on forum posts here.

And the point is, they already said they were going to make changes. It's not going to be the same either way. They called it fixing bugs, glitches and exploits. So now the discussion becomes what was an intended feature that didn't work properly and what is considerd a bug.
12/11/2018 12:28Posted by Hylax
12/11/2018 07:29Posted by Devilsknight
You go on with this when clearly you are in a minority Argonìl. Here's a joke for you:

A man is driving down Highway 55. He turns on the radio to hear the news.
"We want to warn everybody on Highyway 55; a car is heading in the wrong direction. Please be careful".
The man turns off the radio and says "One? There's hundereds of them".


Don't be too sure about that, this forum looks like mostly an echo chamber of hardcore "classic is classic" who are very, very vocal. But the player base exists out of millions, most of them not even using this place. I don't even think developers look here for feedback, just external community managers.

Talking about the big markets, what about the asians, russians, latin-america. Do you think they all want the vanilla exactly as vanilla, have you even investigated those? I don't know either, but don't assume anything on majority/minority based on forum posts here.

And the point is, they already said they were going to make changes. It's not going to be the same either way. They called it fixing bugs, glitches and exploits. So now the discussion becomes what was an intended feature that didn't work properly and what is considerd a bug.


It’s not about hardcore vanilla. It’s about a specific experience defined by certain characteristics. If you remove them you lose the experience.

Example: barrens chat was always active becuase people spent a lot of time there. Give them all the QoL retail has and people won’t even be there for an hour.

Example: world pvp is a thing becuase people need to run to places on slow mounts or on foot. To summing stones, to a town with a flight path, etc. add some good old QoL and we will just zip past on flying or fast mounts. Or he summed by a WL and we lose that too.

Too much QoL = less immersive game. That is what retail is for.

This isn’t “tailor your own wow experience “. It’s classic.

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