Dungeon 2 Set (T 0.5)

Classic Discussion
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Sigri
Tier 0,5 was intended to be a catch-up set, yes, but it utterly failed at that, as the pre-raid bis blues you could farm were more easily and quickly farmed, and was most often better for raiding. Only extremely few bothered with the very long farm for the full Tier 0,5 set. It failed completely at being a catch-up set because it required so much compared to non-set blues, that people just went to Raids as less than full Pre-Raid BiS instead.


I honestly disagree for calling 0.5 a catch-up set , because it is nowhere close to quality of Tier 2 set in regards to Paladin DPS etc.

Molten Core,BWL and ZG were designed in pre 1.9 Patch , where Paladin did use completely different Abilities who didn't require Spell Damage in order to DPS.

Past 1.9 Patch and pre 1.11 Patch , the existence of Spell Damage/Str combined Items was thru Tier 2 , Tier 2.5 , 2 ZG item , few AQ 20/40 offset items.

1.11 Patch PVP and Dungeon Items fixed the issue with lot of "Hybrid Classes (mainly paladins)", whose lack of pre raid and pvp Gear using their post 1.9 Patch changed Spells and Abilities .

So in 1.12 Patch the only pre Raid Gear for Retribution Paladin is Dungeon 2 Set and PVP Set.
Killerduki, I need to know: How will itemization affect Ret Paladins?
12/11/2018 18:58Posted by Devilsknight
Killerduki, I need to know: How will itemization affect Ret Paladins?


No spell damage = Abilities wont scale , so no DPS increasing.

That's like removing Attack Power from Items for Warriors.
12/11/2018 18:39Posted by Sigri
Tier 0,5 was intended to be a catch-up set, yes, but it utterly failed at that, as the pre-raid bis blues you could farm were more easily and quickly farmed, and was most often better for raiding. Only extremely few bothered with the very long farm for the full Tier 0,5 set. It failed completely at being a catch-up set because it required so much compared to non-set blues, that people just went to Raids as less than full Pre-Raid BiS instead.

It really does make alot of sense to make Tier 0,5 attainable before the AQ patch. I think it will be just fine with releasing it at launch. Or at the very least for the BWL patch. If it gets released at the AQ patch, then that set has become mostly obselete emidiately, as the dungeon blues you can otherwise farm, and easier farm too, is by and large better in almost all cases.


0,5 is too much work (not mentioning some things like 45mins baron run isnt for every1) and too expensive for fresh servers so its not rly worth it. And MC will be on farm status VERY fast.
For many classes dungeon set, even 0.5 isn't worth it as pre-raid offpieces are better, especially if we get like DM on launch. Only some classes, like a mage have few 0.5 pieces as their pre-raid BiS. If they make it available pre-raids then more people will actually bother with them even if it's not the best thing, while if they put it later on it will be more like vanilla timeline but less people will try to collect them as they will already have clearly better gear. It's not an obvious one.
12/11/2018 20:02Posted by Bigkeg
while if they put it later on it will be more like vanilla timeline


1.12 Patch , there is no "Vanilla timeline in that" . That's the "Final Patch".

This is not "private servers" nonsense and modified "non blizzlike and non vanilla" pretending to be "blizzlike" under false flag.

Vanilla timeline is only if you begin from 1.1 Patch all the way up to 1.12 Patch with "Everything" , not just "Items" .
I agree that Tier 0.5 can't really qualify as a catch-up set. But that is what it was designed for to my knowledge. Which is why I said that it failed at that. It needs to be at Launch or before the AQ patch at the very least. But it so far seems that Blizzard isn't going for progressive itemisation, judging from the leaked screenshots aswell as how it's official that Dire Maul will be at launch...Which...honestly really sucks immensely so...Because that will mean that Tier 0.5 will be mostly obselette already at Launch, along with much of MC's and BWL's gear. With the updated itemisation aswell as the updated talent trees, and Blizzard having stated that they wont be tuning the difficulty of the raid bosses, so it seems that the game's difficulty will be quite easy, even easier than Private Servers today. Bad move by Blizzard, and I do hope that they change this before launch. I hope they either tune the difficulty of the mobs and bosses up to fit the gear and talents, or that they change it to progressive itemisation but includes Tier 0.5 at launch

PS:
And still tune the difficulty up, with either choice ^^
I think the upgrade sets should be available pretty early on if we are not doing pre 1.10 itemisation anyway. It took immense effort to get all the pieces and raiders already get access to better gear. With tier 0.5 gear there is something for non-raiders to strive for, which I believe was the original intent.
12/11/2018 20:42Posted by Sigri
even easier than Private Servers today.


This is what Majority misunderstood completely.

Most important is that Private Servers are not "Original World of Warcraft Vanilla".

1- Private Servers has "Non Working Boss Mechanics" , which made them ridiculous easy , so they instead decided to "Increase HP and Physical Damage" of Bosses and Mobs as compensation.

2- Plenty of Private Servers Bosses doesn't even work properly or use "Wrong Mechanics".

3- All of Raid Bosses in Private Bosses don't even use original World of Warcraft Armor and Resistance Values , they have put them randomly based on "wishes" out of thin air and "0 evidence".

4- Almost every single Class and Spec has issues with properly Abilities Scaling , where as Warrior and Rogue the DPS increase numbers are huge like TBC , thanks to wrong Rage regeneration/Energy regeneration etc.
12/11/2018 20:42Posted by Sigri
even easier than Private Servers today.


This is what Majority misunderstood completely.

1- Private Servers has "Non Working Boss Mechanics" , which made them ridiculous easy , so they instead decided to "Increase HP and Physical Damage" of Bosses and Mobs as compensation.

2- Plenty of Private Servers Bosses doesn't even work properly or use "Wrong Mechanics".

3- All of Raid Bosses in Private Bosses don't even use original World of Warcraft Armor and Resistance Values , they have put them randomly based on "wishes" out of thin air and "0 evidence".

4- Almost every single Class and Spec has issues with properly Abilities Scaling , where as Warrior and Rogue the DPS increase numbers are huge like TBC , thanks to wrong Rage regeneration/Energy regeneration etc.


Maybe, most likely, but we can't to my knowledge know just how large the difficulty-difference is between original 1.12 and Private Server 1.12. Atleast not until having been 60 in Classic for a bit.
I don’t think Classic can come close to the authenticity of private servers like Nostalrius and Light’s Hope.
12/11/2018 20:11Posted by Killerduki

Vanilla timeline is only if you begin from 1.1 Patch all the way up to 1.12 Patch with "Everything" , not just "Items" .

They already announced content progression - some raids and dungeons. Some items outside od them are so impactful that may be progressed alongside them. 1.12 may suggest how game will look like but it's not guaranteed yet.
When I remember right, D2 was aimed torwards people who saw dungeons and not raids as their high end content. It was implemented to give them something to strive for.

You still have to consider it was not easy to obtain, neither a fast way to get gear. Back then I did the questline with my hunter and it took months to complete it. Not just because of the difficulty of the encounters you had to master durning the quest, but also because you needed the D1 pieces beforehand. Literally, D2 was an upgrade of the D1. You had to exchange D1 for D2 and if you missed a certain piece you could not progress the quest further.

To get the all eight D1 pieces wasn't even simple. Some were part of loot tables from rarly killed boss monsters. For example the endboss of the brd dropped a piece (I think the pala gloves). Back then to find a group which was willing to get to him or even able to do so was rare. Most groups gave up shortly bevor the lyceum, because of the lyceum. It was a nightmare back then. And even if you had a group who was willing to try the lyceum you had only one chance to cross it succesfuly. If you wiped than you could be certain that the respawn was waiting for you at the entrance. And you even if you get through it and you were even able to defeat the emperor, you had no garantee for the gloves to drop. And even if they dropped they could easily be ninja looted by someone from your group. They weren't BoE and you could sell them for quite some gold in the (neutral) AH.
Even the "easy" obtainable pieces were contested. The pieces were not bound to a class, so a feral druid would roll need on rouge D1 or enh. shaman would roll on hunter D1.

Also the encounters were designed to be proper challenge. For example the 45 minute run through Strat. Even with T1 geared friends it was not a simple task. You couldn't run Strat like today by just bombing everything. Good dps wasn't everything back then. You had to plan the run beforehand, get pots, get a priest and (if possible) a shaman with a cleansing totem. And if someone didn't know how to behave in the dungeon he could wipe the group and ruin the run.
Not only Strat was challenging but the other encounters, like the summoned bosses and the end boss of the quest line were hard to kill aswell.

Therefore to call it catch up gear makes me smile. You need to spend alot of time, gold and effort to complete the set. The first time Blizz called something "Catch-Up-Gear" was in TBC, with the introduction of Patch 2.1. They introduced this gear as a simple way to get new players raid ready and to give seasoned players a way spend marks of valor (can't remember how they were called). Before 2.1 you could spend the marks only on resistence gear, shildhand items and meh-trinkets.
12/11/2018 13:27Posted by Killerduki
It will be biggest disaster if Blizzard don't release upon beginning of Classic.

The ONLY and ONLY pre raid BiS set for Retribution Paladin is D2 Set , alternatives are Blue/Epic PVP items.

I don't think this set should be delayed for 2-3-4-5th wave , because in 1.12 Patch , Dungeon set was the only option for Retribution Paladins who want PVE (we don't speak about min/max hardcore trolls) and don't want to PVP .

I really hate to say this , but please make it Vanilla #Nochanges , instead of some Private Server delusional modification which is disaster , It was a clearly said 1.12 Patch , let it be 1.12 then!

Otherwise , if you do different , then Blizzard suppose to use on ALL Classes pre 1.9 Patch Spells or Abilities.

@ Blizzard,please stop this nonsense about how Items should release , because this destroys Retribution Paladins and how they did work on 1.12 Patch.


Ok lets see...

It will be biggest disaster if Blizzard don't release upon beginning of Classic.


No it wont be a disaster if blizz dont release too much Gear.

The ONLY and ONLY pre raid BiS set for Retribution Paladin is D2 Set


You are wrong here, it not the only set that is Good for a ret paladin. Still not worth spending time on a class that dont have a spot in raids w/o nightfall.

I don't think this set should be delayed for 2-3-4-5th wave , because in 1.12 Patch , Dungeon set was the only option for Retribution Paladins who want PVE (we don't speak about min/max hardcore trolls) and don't want to PVP .


Sure, "hardcore trolls" dont want you. Neither do the "casually-noob" guilds cuz i beleve even they want to be able to kill atleast 1 boss in Molten core, or even be able to kill the trash. God help the guilds that accept retadins filling up the raidspots.

I really hate to say this , but please make it Vanilla #Nochanges , instead of some Private Server delusional modification which is disaster , It was a clearly said 1.12 Patch , let it be 1.12 then!


"No changes but do this change" you are a strange person. Also, you clearly dont understand why blizz said 1.12. Its about the best class balance vanilla had. They also Said that they have a step by step content release, items and gear comes with it. How you explain it, you probably think that Naxx will be out at launch. You didnt research anything before making this post...

Otherwise , if you do different , then Blizzard suppose to use on ALL Classes pre 1.9 Patch Spells or Abilities.


"Ye because if i dont get what i want, screw up everything else." You are like 4yo...

@ Blizzard,please stop this nonsense about how Items should release , because this destroys Retribution Paladins and how they did work on 1.12 Patch.


They game isnt just about paladins. And you SHOULD know that..... Probably you dont... :s

Have a nice classic exp, you will hate it.
13/11/2018 01:55Posted by Bigkeg
12/11/2018 20:11Posted by Killerduki

Vanilla timeline is only if you begin from 1.1 Patch all the way up to 1.12 Patch with "Everything" , not just "Items" .

They already announced content progression - some raids and dungeons. Some items outside od them are so impactful that may be progressed alongside them. 1.12 may suggest how game will look like but it's not guaranteed yet.


While i dislike to have "this sort of progression" , i would say that :

Lock/Unlock Raids is not the same as "Changing Items, Lock/Unlock Items and Spells" , if the Current Patch represent something that is required and most important for the Game to work for the specific Classes and Specs.

Then you should not remove such thing as use, otherwise not only the Imbalance , but also the Classes suffering will be HUGE.

Lock/Unlock Raids is not the same as Lock/Unlock Items and Spells .
Just ignore duki and report him, then move on.
By Veryd
12/11/2018 13:27Posted by Killerduki
It will be biggest disaster if Blizzard don't release upon beginning of Classic.

The ONLY and ONLY pre raid BiS set for Retribution Paladin is D2 Set , alternatives are Blue/Epic PVP items.

I don't think this set should be delayed for 2-3-4-5th wave , because in 1.12 Patch , Dungeon set was the only option for Retribution Paladins who want PVE (we don't speak about min/max hardcore trolls) and don't want to PVP .

I really hate to say this , but please make it Vanilla #Nochanges , instead of some Private Server delusional modification which is disaster , It was a clearly said 1.12 Patch , let it be 1.12 then!

Otherwise , if you do different , then Blizzard suppose to use on ALL Classes pre 1.9 Patch Spells or Abilities.

@ Blizzard,please stop this nonsense about how Items should release , because this destroys Retribution Paladins and how they did work on 1.12 Patch.


Ok lets see...

It will be biggest disaster if Blizzard don't release upon beginning of Classic.


No it wont be a disaster if blizz dont release too much Gear.

The ONLY and ONLY pre raid BiS set for Retribution Paladin is D2 Set


You are wrong here, it not the only set that is Good for a ret paladin. Still not worth spending time on a class that dont have a spot in raids w/o nightfall.

I don't think this set should be delayed for 2-3-4-5th wave , because in 1.12 Patch , Dungeon set was the only option for Retribution Paladins who want PVE (we don't speak about min/max hardcore trolls) and don't want to PVP .


Sure, "hardcore trolls" dont want you. Neither do the "casually-noob" guilds cuz i beleve even they want to be able to kill atleast 1 boss in Molten core, or even be able to kill the trash. God help the guilds that accept retadins filling up the raidspots.

I really hate to say this , but please make it Vanilla #Nochanges , instead of some Private Server delusional modification which is disaster , It was a clearly said 1.12 Patch , let it be 1.12 then!


"No changes but do this change" you are a strange person. Also, you clearly dont understand why blizz said 1.12. Its about the best class balance vanilla had. They also Said that they have a step by step content release, items and gear comes with it. How you explain it, you probably think that Naxx will be out at launch. You didnt research anything before making this post...

Otherwise , if you do different , then Blizzard suppose to use on ALL Classes pre 1.9 Patch Spells or Abilities.


"Ye because if i dont get what i want, screw up everything else." You are like 4yo...

@ Blizzard,please stop this nonsense about how Items should release , because this destroys Retribution Paladins and how they did work on 1.12 Patch.


They game isnt just about paladins. And you SHOULD know that..... Probably you dont... :s

Have a nice classic exp, you will hate it.


No it wont be a disaster if blizz dont release too much Gear.


Yeah sure , remove Tier 1 and Tier 2 Warrior Gear , according to your logic , everyone will agree with you .

You are wrong here, it not the only set that is Good for a ret paladin. Still not worth spending time on a class that dont have a spot in raids w/o nightfall.


I agree it's not the only set that is Good for a ret Paladin , PVP , Tier 2, Tier 2.5 and Naxx offpieces are better!

If player at least using a half brain would never even use Nightfall as Retribution PVE , not only it's DPS boost won't even match to how much Retribution would push with another Weapon , but also we don't give a !@#$ about you and how would you give spots to anyone.

In my Guild every single Hybrid will have a spot in Raids and be part of Progression and the "Offtanks who won't currently need tanking" will be Nightfall swingers.

Sure, "hardcore trolls" dont want you. Neither do the "casually-noob" guilds cuz i beleve even they want to be able to kill atleast 1 boss in Molten core, or even be able to kill the trash. God help the guilds that accept retadins filling up the raidspots.


Me?

Cleared all the Raids as Main Tank Protection Paladin all the way up to Naxx last Bosses , not only that i was there as Prot Paladin , but also there was plenty of Hybrids in the Guild too back in 2005/2006.

You can dislike that so much , but it was unfortunately very nice thing to do , everyone had fun and Raids was so smooth and easy.

"No changes but do this change" you are a strange person. Also, you clearly dont understand why blizz said 1.12. Its about the best class balance vanilla had. They also Said that they have a step by step content release, items and gear comes with it. How you explain it, you probably think that Naxx will be out at launch. You didnt research anything before making this post...


You are clearly speaking for yourself , i am the one who demand for #no change , while you want #change.

They said Progression thru Contents , which mean Raids , not progression thru Items , you should next time listen better what they say.

Dungeon 2 Set is there before you step even to the first Raid = Molten Core , so nothing with the "Progression content and items that comes with it".

This issue is completely different than what you are trying to Troll about.

"Ye because if i dont get what i want, screw up everything else." You are like 4yo...


You are unfortunately small kid , who lack comprehensive words and lack of proper IQ about logic in order to understand "how thing are in reality" versus "what they are going to change".

That's your personal issue , perhaps , or you just try to pretend , eitherway.

They game isnt just about paladins. And you SHOULD know that..... Probably you dont... :s


Same as this game isn't just about "Warriors min-max Private Server delusionals".

Have a nice classic exp, you will hate it.


I really wish to make you believe in that , how can i?

13/11/2018 08:36Posted by Lolretadin
Just ignore duki and report him, then move on.


You mad bro?
I played before 1.12 so i didn't see those sets, but there was nothing hard about going through MC without it.
Yeah sure , remove Tier 1 and Tier 2 Warrior Gear , according to your logic , everyone will agree with you .


I was talking about releasing t0.5, that was the topic.

If player at least using a half brain would never even use Nightfall as Retribution PVE , not only it's DPS boost won't even match to how much Retribution would push with another Weapon , but also we don't give a !@#$ about you and how would you give spots to anyone.

In my Guild every single Hybrid will have a spot in Raids and be part of Progression and the "Offtanks who won't currently need tanking" will be Nightfall swingers.


Ye, ret pushes better with a greater weapon if we count the nightfall out. Warriors and hunters do the same but with even bigger Numbers than the retadin. Our offtanks were fury, so they do more dps dual wielding. 2 prot specced tanks. Now alot of bosses required more than 1 tank so no nightfall there cuz we wanted nightfall debuff on every fight.

Cleared all the Raids as Main Tank Protection Paladin all the way up to Naxx last Bosses


Id like to know what Gear u had when you Main tanked Naxx, just curious.

Raids was so smooth and easy.


Thats vanilla for ya

Dungeon 2 Set is there before you step even to the first Raid = Molten Core


Not at launch tho.

They said Progression thru Contents , which mean Raids , not progression thru Items , you should next time listen better what they say.


Im not a fan of blizzards classic schedule. They have already decided tho to go with drums of war for class balance. It doesnt mean that the real 1.12 content and items are out at launch.

You are unfortunately small kid , who lack comprehensive words and lack of proper IQ about logic in order to understand "how thing are in reality" versus "what they are going to change".

That's your personal issue , perhaps , or you just try to pretend , eitherway.


Ahhh, so this is how grownups argue!

Same as this game isn't just about "Warriors min-max Private Server delusionals".


I dont know where you got that from but ye, i agree ;o
Ah, I see Killerduki found his way from trolling private server communities to troll classic.

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