Battlegrounds: expectations vs reality

Battlegrounds
Pre-120 lvl experience

Preparation
Expecation: Im just gonna queue up, since it's not about eq but the skill you've got.

Reality: BiS items on your level, potions, food + 40 other consumables from star wars - total cost ~ several millions of gold.

Gameplay
Expectations: Tactics, fair gameplay, much fun, respect.

Reality: Raid boss warrior leaps into our group throwing an explosive something from star wars that takes 90% of every guy in the battleground. Gets killed after a minute long 1vs10 unfair (for us) pvp, meanwhile /spit on everyone he kills.
What's next on a menu?
God-like disc priest. Bet my !@# that he's got all the power Sargeras has. If you don't 30s chain cc him, don't even bother to scratch him with your pityful numbers you call "damage", as he'll just /laugh at you.

And so on, and so on. Dunno whos idea was it to make PVP gear based, but he's probably mentally disabled or delusional. Open world PVP - fine, let the whiners have it... but Instanced pvp? MA GAWD <facepalm>
PVP is gear based because this is an MMORPG, not a moba. Gearing and building your character is an essential part of the RPG game.

If you don't understand that then you have absolutely no right to assume that anybody is mentally disabled or delusional.

To add to that, how can you say "delusional" when you expect "fair play" and "respect" from an online PVP game?

Low level potions and food buffs are dirt cheap, so your estimate of "several millions of gold" is as stupid as your thread.
Well it should be if you have pve gear you should hit less in pvp and the other way around
05/11/2018 06:43Posted by Miylee
PVP is gear based because this is an MMORPG, not a moba. Gearing and building your character is an essential part of the RPG game.

That has nothing to do with it, I had played numerous MMORPG games where pvp wasn't gear based.

05/11/2018 06:43Posted by Miylee
If you don't understand that then you have absolutely no right to assume that anybody is mentally disabled or delusional.

Just said I don't know whos idea was it, but it's plain stupid, considering the fact that arena (which is instanced pvp zone, too) equals the gear so it's "fair" to play agains your enemy. And bgs aren't. Inconsistency.

05/11/2018 06:43Posted by Miylee
To add to that, how can you say "delusional" when you expect "fair play" and "respect" from an online PVP game?

If it was only half balanced, I'm sure there would be no such situations, or they would be limited to a minimum. If a guy jumps in the whole team and they can't kill him, while he laughs at us all - man, that's some next level of !@#$ed up gameplay.

05/11/2018 06:43Posted by Miylee
Low level potions and food buffs are dirt cheap, so your estimate of "several millions of gold" is as stupid as your thread.

And you didn't mention all the twinks with BiS items and enchants. Food and potions are only the small portion of that. And I'm telling you, in every bg I join there are people in my team that say either:
"We lost, they have [player name]"
or
"We win, we have a [player name]"
If a one guy can almost win a bg solo, that's a rotten gameplay.

I always thought pvp is about skill, not gear. Is it really enjoyable experience for you, if you kill a guy that stands no chance against you because of the gear gap? Do you consider yourself good then? I don't. And if you don't see any problems with battlegrounds as they are right now, we have nothing to discuss about.

PS: I am referring to instanced pvp, not open-world one.

That has nothing to do with it, I had played numerous MMORPG games where pvp wasn't gear based.


And of those "numerous" MMOs, how many are even remotely as successful as WoW?

Just said I don't know whos idea was it, but it's plain stupid


It isn't stupid though, it's an important part of the MMO experience. Legion was the only expansion where gear didn't matter in PVP, and templates were Legion's worst feature.

considering the fact that arena (which is instanced pvp zone, too) equals the gear so it's "fair" to play agains your enemy. And bgs aren't. Inconsistency.


Does it really? I've joined arena games on my lvl59 twink and actually found that I'm even stronger there than battlegrounds. The arena means that there's only 2 enemies, so there isn't enough people to keep me stunned.

If it was only half balanced, I'm sure there would be no such situations, or they would be limited to a minimum.


I've witnessed the same thing as max level, I've witnessed the same thing from previous expansions. That's how it's supposed to be, somebody that works on their character is stronger than somebody who boosts their fotm character.

If a guy jumps in the whole team and they can't kill him, while he laughs at us all - man, that's some next level of !@#$ed up gameplay.


Something I've not witnessed from the new version of twinks.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
And you didn't mention all the twinks with BiS items and enchants.


No, but I've said this in multiple threads hundreds of times now; enchants are dirt cheap. There's absolutely no reason to not enchant your heirlooms. As for BiS gear, aside from things like Sul'thraze and Ramstein's, mosy BiS gear is green.

At lvl49, greens have an ilvl of 54 and are stronger than heirlooms and dungeon blues.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
Food and potions are only the small portion of that. And I'm telling you, in every bg I join there are people in my team that say either:
"We lost, they have [player name]"
or
"We win, we have a [player name]"


Something I've never witnessed and ive got twinks in the 49 and 59 bracket. A decent geared healer makes a bigger impact than a bis twink.

Team co-ordinated also makes a bigger difference than a single twinks.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
If a one guy can almost win a bg solo, that's a rotten gameplay.


One guy can't do that, so I guess we're fine.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
I always thought pvp is about skill, not gear.


No; PVP is about skill, gear, your class and your ability to co-operate with your team.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
Is it really enjoyable experience for you, if you kill a guy that stands no chance against you because of the gear gap?


No different to me than when a mage kills me simply because his class hard counters me.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
Do you consider yourself good then?


"Good" is a relative term. I can beat other twinks with the same gear as me, so I'm clearly not "bad". But no, destroying people that put no effort into their character is funny to me, because I know that behind the screen is going to be some 16 year old complaining that life isn't fair; that he should be equal to everyone else without putting any effort into anything.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
I don't.


Guess you better avoid fighting undergeared people at max level as well, then.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
And if you don't see any problems with battlegrounds as they are right now, we have nothing to discuss about.


You never had anything to discuss in the first place.

05/11/2018 09:24Posted by Oblech
PS: I am referring to instanced pvp, not open-world one.


Why should they be different? Why should my character be stronger or weaker in the open world than it is in an instanced world? That makes absolutely no sense.
05/11/2018 17:09Posted by Miylee
And of those "numerous" MMOs, how many are even remotely as successful as WoW?

WoW is mostly successful because of the story background it had before WoW even came out in the first place. And besides, those games are very successful in terms of pvp gameplay, some of them even got their own pvp tournaments - balanced to a point, that they have 1vs1 arena matches, that every class has a chance against every class. Was playing them, the pvp was great... but the pve was very boring.

05/11/2018 17:09Posted by Miylee
It isn't stupid though, it's an important part of the MMO experience. Legion was the only expansion where gear didn't matter in PVP, and templates were Legion's worst feature.

That's only an opinion, not a fact. Although I didn't play Legion pvp, it sounds good.

05/11/2018 17:09Posted by Miylee
Does it really? I've joined arena games on my lvl59 twink and actually found that I'm even stronger there than battlegrounds. The arena means that there's only 2 enemies, so there isn't enough people to keep me stunned.

Yes, it is. Maybe not 100% fair, but still. Why? Because the classes are not even close to being balanced, but at least we exclude one more RNG factor which is gear. Remove gear and that'll be a nice starting point to proper balancing.

No different to me than when a mage kills me simply because his class hard counters me.

Yeah, that's what Im saying. They obviously can't balance everything right away, but they should take some steps towards it. Rock>paper>scissors balance is no balance. Remove gear based pvp, balance classes and then we can talk about pvp taking some skills. If it's no different to you, than I feel sorry about that. If I kill a guy that has no chance against me, I can't tell I'm a good player and noone should, because you're being carried by gear/class superiority, more than your actual skill.

No; PVP is about skill, gear, your class and your ability to co-operate with your team.

Yeah, add even more RNG-based variables. PVP is about skill (the one that is done right, of course).

"Good" is a relative term. I can beat other twinks with the same gear as me, so I'm clearly not "bad". But no, destroying people that put no effort into their character is funny to me, because I know that behind the screen is going to be some 16 year old complaining that life isn't fair; that he should be equal to everyone else without putting any effort into anything.

Even with proper balance not everyone would be equal, you'd have to work hard to know your class, the classes that you play against, how to counter their abilities, etc. That's what skill is... and how can you even imply that everyone you kill is 16-yo? I'd say majority of people is way above that age. If you find it funny to kill a guy that stands no chance against you - sorry, but that's just pathetic. Don't get me wrong - killing itself (in a game) is okay, that's just how the game works, but if you feel any kind of superiority while doing that, that's just wrong.

Guess you better avoid fighting undergeared people at max level as well, then.

I am. I never engage pvp, unless someone really wants me to fight him. I won't let myself die with no fight back tho, so I will kill someone who tries to kill me... but I never ever kill undergeared players if they're minding their own business, because that's pointless and proves nothing (unless you're heavy RP and want enemy faction to suffer no matter what).

You never had anything to discuss in the first place.

WE never had anything to discuss about. My point was, and still is, right at some extend. And you? You seem to enjoy current imbalance. FIne, whatever. There you have it:
https://i.imgur.com/c4jt321.png

05/11/2018 17:09Posted by Miylee
Why should they be different? Why should my character be stronger or weaker in the open world than it is in an instanced world? That makes absolutely no sense.

Ikr! I'd completely agree with you there, and would remove gear being a factor in a pvp... but there would be some whines that they want the gear matter for whatever reason (as I could notice reading threads about pvp). So, even though it's not fair, let them have it. Let them feel that although they have little to none skill, they can feel "my d**k is bigger than yours" through gear advantage. Let them feel "good", "powerful", "superior". But instanced PVP? Hell nay, keep the gear away! Every game I played had it sorted that way: instanced = equal, open world = gear dependant. And it was win-win situation for all.

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