Ion's Blizzcon Q&A answer on RNG

General
I have kept wondering if I should putting in some work proving that there is an anti luck protection in game. It is really much work just for having shills cry that Blizzard can't be this evil.

WoW no longer have the old loot tables with x amount of % for drop of an item. It is now programmed in such a way that ALL gear loot have the same loot drop chance(there is a catch though). What decides if a gear piece drops is how much upgrades you have done in x amount of days. The more upgrades you get the lower you chance for upgrade become. You might get gear but it won't be an ilvl upgrade. If you don't get any upgrades for x amount of days the chance for an upgrade gets higher. It is a way to artificially make players play for longer because anytime you take a break and come back you get bathed in loot.

There is also a system in place that if your luck chance has been set to low(to many upgrades in a week). If by any chance you get lucky even with low probability for an upgrade it will be on a piece of gear that is already high ilvl. So you get the lowest amount of ilvl possible, i.e max ilvl drop is 370. Your max ilvl gear slot has 365 ilvl. You then get a upgrade to that slot from ilvl 365->370.

If you don't believe me please test it out yourself. Note your average ilvl. Note ilvl of all your gear slots. Note any gear that drops for you. This is something you have to do every day.

Another way for you to test this out by yourself is doing warfronts on alts. Lets hypothetically say that end of warfronts reward is any slot gear and any of those slots that can possibly drop has equal drop chance (head 7.69% shoulders 7.69% ...etc 13 slots). Then if you get a shoulder drop from warfronts why do you keep getting the same slot drop multiple times in a row? My last warfront I got an shoulder and bracer upgrade. And ever time I did another warfront I keep getting the same slot. After 8 warfronts I had 4 shoulder pieces and 4 bracer pieces. The same has happened on my other alts, just not the same slots like 3 gloves and 5 cloaks pieces. The probability of getting 4 in same slot is extremely small, but this keep happening over and over again. It is honestly impossible getting the same piece over and over again if regular probability is in place. Unless there is third party system in place artificially slowing down player progress.

The only place I haven't seen this system fully implemented yet is m+, and I am not talking about weekly chest(note fully there is a system in place for m+ but not as severe). Raids on the other hand I am sure there is a system like this in place as every time you do an raid you get an guaranteed 1-2 items per raid. But it being a upgrade is part of their looting system.

Of course all loot doesn't use this system like mounts and pets. Loot that isn't correlated to your ilvl uses the old loot system with a constant % of drop chance.

tl;dr the rng is even worse than you think, your luck gets tuned down if you get too many upgrades in a single week. Effort won't always reward you with more gear, unless you wait.
14/11/2018 15:17Posted by Melthor
14/11/2018 14:50Posted by Cedrad
He gives the same answer because Blizzard position on the subject doesn't change. It's that simple.

And generaly he's not wrong, you are more likely to be excited if you get something you want when you don't expect it. The problem is that due to the nature of RNG if you want that one thing then majorty of time you'll get something else and be dissapointed.

They hope that it will keep you playing because you realy want that item and gonna try over and over again.


This mentality only proves, that there are a lot of 'sheeps' in the current playerbase, who listens to the company on how to have fun and doesn't care if they've just became a money making machine, that is being milked.
I've long time quit the game, still have a few days probably, but I won't log in... because they have lost me... hearing their reaction through different forums, Q&As and others, they've strictly reverted themself into money making instead of good game making.
I'll play HotS a bit from day to day now, but I will not buy a single WoW expansion ever again, because I'm just no longer able to trust this company.
In the last almost decade all they've sold were just sugarcoated sh*t.


So you call me a 'sheep' because I state the facts? I didn't give my opinion on the subject, just the facts. Another fact is that they are trying to rectify some of those rng issues by introducing a vendor for azerite pieces.

And here's my opinion:

I never siad I 100% agree with what he says. Only thing anyone can agree that it is exciting to finally get item you want. But in modern wow world it's very frustrating trying to get that one particular item. This is pretty much similar to the daily sitatuation, at some point there were just too many dailies to do each day. Now this is true for RNG in getting gear, there's too much of it.

This is another reason after not having time and will to play on a set regular schedule why I now prefer to play casualy. For a casual player those issues aren't that big of a deal because you don't realy strife to be competetive.
I struggle to understand why people even bother listening to any Blizzard Q+A's anymore, lon is well versed in 'double speak' (as he would be, he's an ex Lawyer) Blizzard have their own agenda with regards to the direction of the game, and therefore anything spoken or asked by the community is simply ignored, met with double speak or nonsense.

It's all just become a PR exercise laced with nonsense tbh
I do miss that hunt the loot feeling.

But I feel like WoW has drifted away from that a lot.

You used to be able to run dungeon/raid or farm x mob for x drop.
As OP said you might not never see it, but you knew if it dropped you was cemented a certain piece with specific stats.

IMHO that is a vastly better system than we have today, all they had to do was tweak reforging and the system would be fantastic still.

But it’s no longer about a ‘rewarding’ grind. I don’t know about you lot but grinding in WoW used to feel rewarding to me. Reps have always been tedious but grinding for x mount or x gear always left me with that right what piece next!

You’d see a character with the gear you wanted and drool because you knew they were lucky or grinded. You envied them.

Now the system is about retaining players, how can we assure that the average player spends longer doing x, y and z? But it’s backfired and people don’t have interest because even if you get that bit of gear you have the chance of it being useless!
I really don’t understand how can’t they just do like this:

Max ilv possible=Mythic raid difficulty

So no titanforging or warforging in mythic but you can stil get sockets by rng

Put a random drop in mythic that allow you to add 1 socket on an item (so farming mythic will be meaningful)

Put also something like valor point that allow you to enhance with sockets or terziary stats your items (so in the end if u farm mythic raids you will get the best gear, the only rng is in dropping chance)

Put an upgrade on m+, a new mode like +5 or even +10 the max one which drop mythic quality gear (same lvl as raid but without socket or tf/wf)

keep tf and wf for any lower difficulties even weekly chest that drops mythic gear with a +10 or +15 depend on tier (so same gear of the enhanced m+ mod above)

With this you can still catch up if u are lucky but if u are able to farm all endgame contents you will finally get the best gear possibile (unless really unlucky) without praise gods

All wins
14/11/2018 19:40Posted by Seronita
I do miss that hunt the loot feeling.

But I feel like WoW has drifted away from that a lot.

You used to be able to run dungeon/raid or farm x mob for x drop.
As OP said you might not never see it, but you knew if it dropped you was cemented a certain piece with specific stats.

IMHO that is a vastly better system than we have today, all they had to do was tweak reforging and the system would be fantastic still.

But it’s no longer about a ‘rewarding’ grind. I don’t know about you lot but grinding in WoW used to feel rewarding to me. Reps have always been tedious but grinding for x mount or x gear always left me with that right what piece next!

You’d see a character with the gear you wanted and drool because you knew they were lucky or grinded. You envied them.

Now the system is about retaining players, how can we assure that the average player spends longer doing x, y and z? But it’s backfired and people don’t have interest because even if you get that bit of gear you have the chance of it being useless!


so trueeee
14/11/2018 09:41Posted by Leymaiden
And that's ok for some and not ok for others. Sure. But can we please stop pretending that 395s from M0s and warfronts are a common occurence?


Can we stop pretending like what you just said disproves the original point?

Seriously, just because it's rare, doesn't mean it should be in game.
14/11/2018 10:41Posted by Lilîith
14/11/2018 09:33Posted by Eleanory
Those people who are designing the game are designing something that is inside their heads, not on live servers.
They have no idea what retail game feels like, they dont play it, they are stuck in 2008+ era and blame us that we dont want to play that which is in their heads a perfectly good and fun game to play.

Those people are delusional.

"You guys have phones, right?"


those people are also a reason why WoW is making atm more $$$$ then ever before

so clearly they are doin something correcly


Clearly you don't follow what is exactly happening at present , they are not making more $$$$ then ever before. The for casts fell short what was expected, the switching of Black ops 4 from November to October release date saved the 3 quarterly results from being a total disaster. The next quarter results are reported to be soft. With no new titles over the next 3/4 months and Mau falling the revenue is going to fall, they still making money but as not much. Not unless they can get some RNG.
14/11/2018 09:23Posted by Muserbravo
Currently the RNG system is layers of RNG on top of layers of RNG.
No longer is it "kill boss, get X item" (1 layer of RNG).


This is the whole problem in a nutshell. I know some people love titanforging but for me it's removed all progression of gearing. I rarely have anything to aim for, everything I do get I have to sim before I even know if it's an upgrade. This is the first time I've ever felt the need to pay raidbots so that I don't have to wait forever to get sim results.

Not to mention that items that don't get good titanforges feel disappointing.
14/11/2018 09:23Posted by Muserbravo
However, I don't think Ion is understanding the frustration around RNG right now.
When you kill a boss and you know it can drop the item you want, you know what you need to do in game. If it never drops it, then that's just bad luck. Annoying at the time, but you eventually move on to another boss with probably a better bit of gear.


You have a very arbitrary acceptance when it comes to RNG btw. It's "just bad luck" cause that's how you got used to it, if the game started from Vanilla with TF and removed it after 5 expansions you'd be upset about the lack of RNG layers and complain how blizzard is pruning the RPG elements of the game.

Also back then you weren't really able to move on to another boss, because that's not how BiS works and you're just rewriting history here. "Probably get better gear from another boss" is what we have NOW, we didn't have it back then.

14/11/2018 09:23Posted by Muserbravo
I knew every item by name and which boss it came from.


I'm willing to bet you didn't, you just copy/pasted this from one of the hundreds of other topics which in turn parroted it from some streamer.
And even after i saw this exact same line over and over i still don't know what's the point of it.

14/11/2018 09:23Posted by Muserbravo
Now.....I haven't got a clue what drops where


I'm sure you do and i'm sure you keep your coins for certain bosses. But let's say you don't know where your items come from, well i do, what now?

Anyway, i had to check someone didn't actually necro an old thread before posting this.
No dev at activision / blizz currently play the game. Or they just have everything so they don’t experience this progression system.

Simple as that.
BTW...
Weren't we supposed to get more questions answered from the Blizzcon Q&A thread. Ion said they were going to do so, few weeks later and still nothing...
15/11/2018 04:45Posted by Shopkeeper
BTW...
Weren't we supposed to get more questions answered from the Blizzcon Q&A thread. Ion said they were going to do so, few weeks later and still nothing...


They're a bit busy at the mo, hosting a Q&A with all the investors...

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