Bfa is unfulfilling, especially for casuals

General
I think with the asmongold video and the preach videos people start to connect the dots. The game becomes more and more unfulfilling with each expansion. Catchup through warfronts, m+ chest, pvp chest, and now even world quests have invalidated my gear to a degree I didnt think was possible. It disconnects people from their investment in their chas.

Think about getting a baseline 55 weapon from normal uldir that the guy worked really hard for and a day later he gets a 70 baseline weapon from warfronts.

Which weapon feels more rewarding and would the guy be less happy if the wafront weapon didnt drop? Its ridiculous how blizzard thinks that more gear will fix everything. Every casual is literally getting handed free wins, its pathetic and its not even fun. Everyone who wants to get into wow to play an mmo, see their character grow and get better with it over time is getting dissapointed. Your character cant grow if it was always op. Everyone is getting sugarcoated as long as humanly possible to make them happy because they always win. From lvl 1 til 120 and until mythic +7-8 and heroic mother.
But then... !@#$ hits the fan REAL BIG!

And suddenly when people have never even experienced a loss in the game their are AT a loss. They dont know what to do because they dont know whats going on. The game always played itself for them basicly. And then people get into really dumb arguements that defy all sense of logics using all random metrics at hand to somehow cope with their loss.

Blizzard is scared to teach their players how to loose. When its the most basic thing ever. Even kids can deal with that.
Even simple things like learning how to use heals in a fight so you dont die vs. random mobs can feel rewarding if you beat what has beaten you before. If people are to get invested in the game again then blizzard needs to stop beeing afraid to let their players lose once in a while. Or let them fight bosses with apropriat gear so the fights dont feel like a target dummy.
And most of all giving people the loot they deserve. Getting a gold medal for 3rd place hardly feels more rewarding and can also be awkward to show off. If third place is something you worked really hard for, 3rd place is a win for you and it feels like it!
BfA is unfulfilling period, regardless if you're a casual, semi-casual, semi-hardcore or hardcore-player.

The new Azerite-vendor is a step in the right direction, but this expansion is in dire need of many steps before we're even at the point we should've been at launch.
i agree man but the new annouced mythic+ currency changes could play a role in changing it a bit in the future we casual may actually be able to get gear!
20/10/2018 01:23Posted by Darthtoon
i agree man but the new annouced mythic+ currency changes could play a role in changing it a bit in the future we casual may actually be able to get gear!
I dont think thats your main but this meme is the exact thing i am trying to prevent. The lfr only player that has been pumped full of gear that he doesnt deserve at his skillevel. 2/15 items are from actual pe content. Presumable after you got the other 13 pieces from a combination of Reputation/emmisaries/lfr/pvp-conquest-weapons/darkmoon and weekly reward quests. Realistically you shouldnt have that gear and because mythic normal doesnt give you upgrades you think people should invite you for mythic+. You are blaming raider io for everything when you could even outgear normal uldir with the sutff you have. I figured out that much just by looking at your armory (blizzard function) because raider io doesnt show anything about you.
Ultimately your skillevel is way below your itemlevel equivilant but your itemlevel sugests that you should be able to do even harder content, the vicious circle closes.
Biggest reason for this isn't issue of BfA

Problem is entirely in way RNG within RNG within RNG works and that started back in Legion.
And even RNG itself isn't problem, but rather lack of non-RNG options - you can't really work for anything as everything is RNG based

I wrote following 2 years ago when this problem started:
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614414967
you may want take a look
20/10/2018 01:50Posted by Piscina
20/10/2018 01:23Posted by Darthtoon
i agree man but the new annouced mythic+ currency changes could play a role in changing it a bit in the future we casual may actually be able to get gear!
I dont think thats your main but this meme is the exact thing i am trying to prevent. The lfr only player that has been pumped full of gear that he doesnt deserve at his skillevel. 2/15 items are from actual pe content. Presumable after you got the other 13 pieces from a combination of Reputation/emmisaries/lfr/pvp-conquest-weapons/darkmoon and weekly reward quests. Realistically you shouldnt have that gear and because mythic normal doesnt give you upgrades you think people should invite you for mythic+. You are blaming raider io for everything when you could even outgear normal uldir with the sutff you have. I figured out that much just by looking at your armory (blizzard function) because raider io doesnt show anything about you.
Ultimately your skillevel is way below your itemlevel equivilant but your itemlevel sugests that you should be able to do even harder content, the vicious circle closes.


this is my main .. well it was when i played.

i have 3 other 120;s but they are all ilvl 338ish

i gave up gearing a while back cause of being refused groups
20/10/2018 03:13Posted by Xarht
Problem is entirely in way RNG within RNG within RNG works and that started back in Legion.
Its a problem they supposedly "nerfed" but as of now titanforging is without a doubt the biggest problem in bfa. Its like a red thread that has spun itself through every system in legion. Every weekly reward/chest is rng and can forge. Worldbosses/raids even Islands are almost entirely rng unless you play them totally contrary to the design.
Its all a big sheme to prolong participation but the reality in bfa is that titanforges are 0,5% upgrades at max so nobody even bothers. So the sytsem did the complete oposite, you clear raids faster you get your baseline gear and you stop raiding cause titanforges arent really big upgrades anyways let alone change your gameplay (not much option with one azerite setpiece not having an alternative (diff. for every armor type).
The solution to keeping up gametime and participation are as old as pvp itself. There need to be M+ seasons like arena pvp with mounts/pets/transmog as rewards. The best loot should still come from raids. So if you are through with raids and packed with gear people usually look for other types of competetive content. Thats the perfect time to switch focus. And if you dont have a mythic guild, at the end of each tier the raid opens up crossrealm and gets nerfed so pucker up and get that gear. Lets be honest blizzard doesnt hide good gear behind the later bosses anymore even though i think they still should (taloc is a joke and drops the bis meele 2h weapon in the entire game right now).
20/10/2018 04:36Posted by Piscina
Its a problem they supposedly "nerfed" but as of now titanforging is without a doubt the biggest problem in bfa.

It's a problem, sure, and now that Asmon has sounded the charge and Preach has dotted the "i"s and crossed the "t"s, every carpetbagger is piling on.

But "biggest" problem? #1? Numero uno? Naah. Just the PotM. This casual would rate it somewhere around 25th ... and not really worth splitting out by itself, now I think of it; it's really just one facet of the general problem of catch-up and scaling (in the broader sense).

I'd put classes as the #1 problem in the gameplay category. I'm not even sure I'd rank gameplay as the #1 category.

Please don't speak for all casuals, even if you consider yourself one.
20/10/2018 01:17Posted by Piscina

Blizzard is scared to teach their players how to loose.

no. its the business model to spam low quality unrewarding easy to consume junk tier content. because its unfulfilling its meant to make you want more and more, but all you will get is more of the same junk with tons of PR preaching how great it is with 491 another Ions as game directors unable to say anything specific about it because the content is emtpy so there is nothing to say about it. you guys need to understand that this is intended
20/10/2018 01:50Posted by Piscina
20/10/2018 01:23Posted by Darthtoon
i agree man but the new annouced mythic+ currency changes could play a role in changing it a bit in the future we casual may actually be able to get gear!
I dont think thats your main but this meme is the exact thing i am trying to prevent. The lfr only player that has been pumped full of gear that he doesnt deserve at his skillevel. 2/15 items are from actual pe content. Presumable after you got the other 13 pieces from a combination of Reputation/emmisaries/lfr/pvp-conquest-weapons/darkmoon and weekly reward quests. Realistically you shouldnt have that gear and because mythic normal doesnt give you upgrades you think people should invite you for mythic+. You are blaming raider io for everything when you could even outgear normal uldir with the sutff you have. I figured out that much just by looking at your armory (blizzard function) because raider io doesnt show anything about you.
Ultimately your skillevel is way below your itemlevel equivilant but your itemlevel sugests that you should be able to do even harder content, the vicious circle closes.


So want to stop certain people getting certain gear even though it doesn't affect your gameplay in anyway shape or form?
20/10/2018 06:48Posted by Iggwilv
So want to stop certain people getting certain gear even though it doesn't affect your gameplay in anyway shape or form?


it actually does.
Because hamipdampi with his LFR skilllevel, but a 360 ilvl he lucked together has a good chance of coming into a mythic+ group with my alt, if the person in charge does not check for r.io stuff. And it DOES affect my gameplay quite abit, if that guy holds up the entire group by pulling stuff, dying, not interrupting and whatever else he can fckup.

And it also does indeed feel very unrewarding for me, to see people who run around in normal or heroic uldir, having a higher ilvl than i do. Thatone does not directly affect me, but it makes me feel "Why do i even bother killing these mythic bosses?"
True, catch up mechanics and to less extent titanforges destroy sense of character progression, thus lowering motivation to try harder current content.
From my point of view TBC had perfect gearing/progression model, 3 viable linear ways (pve, pvp and craft), badges were sort of rng protection allowing to get some limited gear equal to the place you get badges from.
In a way I agree with you, the game has an easy going nature to it. And having a good weapon isn't difficult to get.
I don't do dungeons anymore, but my weapons are still good enough for me to get through the game with ease.

But I remember how people wanted to get the gear more easy in Cata. How people were making post after post, that pvp were unfulfilling because you had to be in a lot of BG to get enough honour points.
And a lot more post that the gear from dungeons were too rare, and one after another was quitting because there was no reason to play a game, were you had to work so hard.

I guess it's difficult to find the balance.
But I thought BfA was especially fulfilling for casuals if we ask the anti-WF/TF crowd because you guys are running arround in 400 ilvl +leech +socket gear by doing LFR and warfronts whereas the awesome and hardcore raiding crowd can't even get a warforge and feels shoved out of relevance.
just give us Classic alrdy !!! it was rewarding just to lvl and get that 1 extra skillpoint xD !!! nothing can beat that..
M+ =/= the entire game

its tiring to hear over and over that the entire game is destroyed because you lot don't get what you want from M+ chests

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