How many subs has wow lost?

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It's not rocket science. Everything is gated behind content that the majority ie casuals do not get to experience because they can't commit the time to the game. These ppl are leaving in droves and the effects are starting to be felt. In earlier expansions you could progress even if you were a casual but not now. Raiders snub the more casual player but they are all subbers whose money goes towards that high end content they enjoy. Well that is changing and the casuals have had enough and are leaving and taking that money with them. Soon only the hardcore raiders will be left but there won't be enough players to do the content with. Empty cities, empty auction houses, empty guilds etc and blizz won't have the money for new expansions and content so will probably go free to play with a new p2w shop. Enjoy your empty raiding groups and shock horror you might have to use the lfr lol high end raiders and their attitudes to the casual player have helped to damage wow as well as blizzards !@#$ expansion
11/11/2018 10:39Posted by Kaelena
It's not rocket science. Everything is gated behind content that the majority ie casuals do not get to experience because they can't commit the time to the game. These ppl are leaving in droves and the effects are starting to be felt. In earlier expansions you could progress even if you were a casual but not now. Raiders snub the more casual player but they are all subbers whose money goes towards that high end content they enjoy. Well that is changing and the casuals have had enough and are leaving and taking that money with them. Soon only the hardcore raiders will be left but there won't be enough players to do the content with. Empty cities, empty auction houses, empty guilds etc and blizz won't have the money for new expansions and content so will probably go free to play with a new p2w shop. Enjoy your empty raiding groups and shock horror you might have to use the lfr lol high end raiders and their attitudes to the casual player have helped to damage wow as well as blizzards !@#$ expansion


I find it the opposite. I feel high end players are leaving because there is no challenge, the gear sucks, scaling sucks. Everything is dumbed down and boring to play.

So many new casuals seem to love this game but the players from classic - Wotlk are the ones leaving to not come back. Opinion based of course but regardless something is massively wrong and the game is dying very, very fast.
10/11/2018 15:38Posted by Hypxbruh
10/11/2018 12:27Posted by Lilchan
Extremely unfriendly for new players


you realize all the time Blizzard tried to be more " new player friendly " they just ended up screwing the more hardcore/dedicated players over ?

in my opinion nothing has hurt the game as much as Blizzard trying to appeal to new/casual players.

I mean look at what they done with all the pruning.
One of the reasons they removed so many abilities in the first place was because it was " to confusing " for new players and apparently scared many of them away.

I don't have any data on how many people are now actively playing the game because they made that change but I know that 95% of my friend list isn't enjoying their class nearly as much as they used to in MoP, cata or WoltK for example, in fact many of my friends quit because of awful class design over the last 2-3 expansions and my sub is running out too because of that exact reason.

tl;dr
I really doubt that making the game more " casual/new player" friendly has done any good for the game or got more people into playing WoW.

When I started playing I didn't start because it was so easy to achieve something, no I started because achieving something felt meaningful and you had fun on the way getting there.


Well, it's not really that simple. It's true that they pruned abilities, not sure the reason was that new players are confused by them (I recall more the fact they thought they just weren't used enough or they were just passives that didn't impact on the game), but assuming new players were the issue - they are confused because they don't get to get used to them gradually, and that happens because they streamlined leveling a lot, which happened also because old players complained that they've seen those quests a hundred times and don't want to slog through them.

10/11/2018 16:51Posted by Hypxbruh
for example when they decided to put in LFR, catch up mechanics, personal loot and everything else that makes acquiring loot easier for people who don't have to much time for the game or people who want to get in to the game but feel they are too far behind.


Catch up mechanics weren't just for new players, but also for old ones that wanted to reroll easier.

@OP - I've been playing the game since TBC without breaks and I can't say I ever got bored. Maybe it helps that my play time is limited. Still, this expansion some things felt too slow even for me (and mind you, I never whined about stuff like Pathfinder).

For example, yesterday I did a few wq on my alt mage and it struck me how long I had to spend just to travel from one q to another. Fps are alright in the horde area (my alt being horde) but in alliance ones...it's a handful of them, which end up in a lot of traveling time. I like traveling, but there's only so much you can stomach. The fact that there's entire areas with no herbs to make the journey still worth something is adding to it. Then there's the capital city of the horde (no idea how the alliance is). Everything is so ridiculously spread - in the beginning I thought it's just me not used to it, and how it will make it feel more like a real city, but no, every day I'm just getting more weary of flying to the docks and back and running 3 stories down for profession trainers.

Then there's the rep gains: I'm doing the said wq for reputation for 3rd rank flasks. I'm not an ah player but I like crafting my own stuff, and right now without rank 3 and procs, crafting is not worth the price of the flowers, which make me feel my profession is useless. Thing is, I'll have to crawl for rep to get to revered, and with 75 rep for one, that's one long crawl. I'll get to it eventually, but between farming herbs and farming rep that means I'll have no time to do much else on my mage, which is rather demotivating. And that is only my first alt - I don't play more than 1-2 per expansion, I have no idea how it feels for people that play more.

I'm not big on rerolling, but there's the allied races. Whoever thought putting something that is purely cosmetic for once, and one of the few new things the expansion has behind another wall of rep, had the worst possible idea. It literally punished players that didn't play Legion and made them run old content for something marketed as a selling point for BfA. Heck, zandalari trolls and kul tirans aren't even available yet. I can understand power being locked behind time gates (like artifacts were in Legion), but races - something purely cosmetic? Crafting?

And one of the big issues for me: I don't know what they did with tanks, but m+ is basically 90% blood dks with the occasional paladin and there's nowhere enough tanks for it. I was in a pug the other day, waiting for a while for a tank, and a warrior with 800ish score applied, and was left there unaccepted by the leader, who preferred a 400ish score blood dk. Not only the tank's part is hardest, because they have to know pull patterns and set the pace, class design also eliminates half of them that play the "wrong class". The issue is less glaring with dps, but I barely ever see shadow priests for ex, or a dps druid.
11/11/2018 10:57Posted by Sethroguen
11/11/2018 10:39Posted by Kaelena
It's not rocket science. Everything is gated behind content that the majority ie casuals do not get to experience because they can't commit the time to the game. These ppl are leaving in droves and the effects are starting to be felt. In earlier expansions you could progress even if you were a casual but not now. Raiders snub the more casual player but they are all subbers whose money goes towards that high end content they enjoy. Well that is changing and the casuals have had enough and are leaving and taking that money with them. Soon only the hardcore raiders will be left but there won't be enough players to do the content with. Empty cities, empty auction houses, empty guilds etc and blizz won't have the money for new expansions and content so will probably go free to play with a new p2w shop. Enjoy your empty raiding groups and shock horror you might have to use the lfr lol high end raiders and their attitudes to the casual player have helped to damage wow as well as blizzards !@#$ expansion


I find it the opposite. I feel high end players are leaving because there is no challenge, the gear sucks, scaling sucks. Everything is dumbed down and boring to play.

So many new casuals seem to love this game but the players from classic - Wotlk are the ones leaving to not come back. Opinion based of course but regardless something is massively wrong and the game is dying very, very fast.


I kind of agree with you both, its not a very satisfying experience for anyone, which is what tends to happen if you try to broaden the appeal too much. Thats not the only reason but for me its a big factor.
Honestly I wish they would just show sub numbers again just to shut people up
I have no trouble finding RBGs or dungeon groups even though I play at funky hours.

Even private servers with a population less than 10,000 can function.

Realmpop says that my server Draenor has over 80,000 characters at level 120. Let's say half of these are inactive, we still have to consider the number of people leveling all the new allied races. At least 100,000 people must be playing regularly. That's more than enough.

To be honest I'm tired of people reskinning the same thread thousands of times. I disagree with certain design choices but I still like the game, and I think it's easy to make friends in WoW even if your irl friends no longer play. Just meet new people.

Maybe reroll in a higher population realm?
11/11/2018 11:39Posted by Telriem
Honestly I wish they would just show sub numbers again just to shut people up


They stopped showing us them the day WOD almost killed WoW, i think it Went down to like 400 000 Before they shut it down.

That they do not dare to show the real active sub numbers tells me that it is far worse than it was in WOD, why else wouldnt they show it?

And by active i mean those who logged in the latest one week and pays sub, not token. Lets see how high it is.

There is no flying enabled yet i cant find a single player outside the world.
Everyone left.

Only me and little jimmy left played.
@Djinnzstout: Actually, if my memory is not in error, the very final official number was 5,6 million for Q4 in 2015 world wide.

As for the active accounts... Technically, it does NOT make any difference, if the game time was paid with a game time card, credit card or token conversion. Someone paid for it. Accounts effectively only have two payment statuses, active game time or not. As for the numbers... Last night, according to my math based on public data sources, the minimum possible number for EU+US still exceeded 1,832 million. How much higher it actually is... only Blizzard knows.
11/11/2018 13:16Posted by Djinnzstout
They stopped showing us them the day WOD almost killed WoW, i think it Went down to like 400 000 Before they shut it down.


No, no it was not, it was vastly more than that. I remember when they stopped, it was slightly over 5 million.

I know it is the hip thing these days for people to want to be their own self fulfilling prophets of doom, but it gets really tired when people just make up figures to support their arguments because they had a bad experience playing WoW today and want it to fail....

To be honest, I'm seeing it become more active, game world seems busier, my Battletag,RealID list is a lot fuller again. Going by my own Empirical evidence therefore, Wow is actually increasing in numbers. We cannot however, take Empirical evidence as proof either, as it is by definition subjective.

Its probably a fairly even constant figure at this point in time. All the people moaning and saying they are going to quit are still here and moaning and saying they are going to quit, and in the meantime the majority of players are just, well, playing the game. Many, most in fact, just don't bother with the forums.

Sometimes I can't say I blame them. I must have a masochistic streak...
the last people to leave the game will be the streamers imo, i wonder what they will do if wow died out of lack on interest?

move to another game?

give up streaming?

cry in a corner?

get a real job?

leave mums basement?

who knows.
11/11/2018 15:00Posted by Pixelbear
the last people to leave the game will be the streamers imo, i wonder what they will do if wow died out of lack on interest?


Most of them are streaming different games anyway.
11/11/2018 14:21Posted by Brigante
11/11/2018 13:16Posted by Djinnzstout
They stopped showing us them the day WOD almost killed WoW, i think it Went down to like 400 000 Before they shut it down.


No, no it was not, it was vastly more than that. I remember when they stopped, it was slightly over 5 million.

I know it is the hip thing these days for people to want to be their own self fulfilling prophets of doom, but it gets really tired when people just make up figures to support their arguments because they had a bad experience playing WoW today and want it to fail....

To be honest, I'm seeing it become more active, game world seems busier, my Battletag,RealID list is a lot fuller again. Going by my own Empirical evidence therefore, Wow is actually increasing in numbers. We cannot however, take Empirical evidence as proof either, as it is by definition subjective.

Its probably a fairly even constant figure at this point in time. All the people moaning and saying they are going to quit are still here and moaning and saying they are going to quit, and in the meantime the majority of players are just, well, playing the game. Many, most in fact, just don't bother with the forums.

Sometimes I can't say I blame them. I must have a masochistic streak...


I might be wrong but didnt WOD have like 10 mill first and then went down to 5 million in a month and then went downhills so hard that Blizzard released Legion which had so much better content and so on just to make people play WoW again?

Like it went from 10 million to 5 million in a month and then like 4 million quit when Blizzard announced the big * joke named Selfie patch and they stopped showing sub numbers in shame?

I am not saying doom or anything but at the halloween party everyone laughed and asked if people still play WoW and the whole communities are extremely negative to both WoW and ActiBlizzard for the Diablo immortal disaster.

Honestly i dont care if this game gets more or less sub numbers by now. All i do is sitting in Goldshire till sub runs out. Which is 2 years because i paid so much in token and i cant cancel it.

Friend list is dead. Zones are dead despite no flying. Chat is dead. My guilds are dead. Ive never ever seen something like this. Diablo Immortal getting so much crap that thumbs down disappears, most youtubers talking down to Blizzards games, i am stunned.

Its WOD all over again. Well i guess WoW can get more numbers. All it takes is a good patch or expansion.
11/11/2018 11:39Posted by Telriem
Honestly I wish they would just show sub numbers again just to shut people up


It would just shift the discussion from speculation to discussion about the actual figures.
11/11/2018 15:00Posted by Pixelbear
the last people to leave the game will be the streamers imo, i wonder what they will do if wow died out of lack on interest?

move to another game?

give up streaming?

cry in a corner?

get a real job?

leave mums basement?

who knows.


i get the feeling you are not taking asmongold seriously
11/11/2018 15:52Posted by Elcowerino
11/11/2018 15:00Posted by Pixelbear
the last people to leave the game will be the streamers imo, i wonder what they will do if wow died out of lack on interest?

move to another game?

give up streaming?

cry in a corner?

get a real job?

leave mums basement?

who knows.


i get the feeling you are not taking asmongold seriously


i'd worry if anyone took anything that guy said seriously lol.
WoW won't die. IF, and this is a big if, Activision pull the plug, an independent company or philanthropist somewhere will buy the rights and keep it going.

[prepares to get flamed]
@Djinnzstout: As far as EU realms are concerned... It took almost six months for the activity to fall from WoD launch to roughly 45 to 50% level, then it very slowly "bled" down to roughly 40% by May 2016, which is lowest known activity point for the past several years in EU (and US)... and just before Legion launched, WoD activity had already increased to above 50% WoD launch levels.

And the numbers today... Activity last month was higher than WoD launch + 5 months or about on par with Legion launch + 3 months. This month does look a bit more worrisome, but some of that might be due to myself being away from home more than has been usual and gathering less overall data. I will need to re-examine some of the figures more thoroughly at the end of month and also run comparison checks towards other CensusPlus users' results to eliminate subjective bias.
11/11/2018 16:38Posted by Trelw
This month does look a bit more worrisome, but some of that might be due to myself being away

My intuition tells me that activity is dropping because week or two ago we crossed the line where bare emissary rep got all new factions to exalted, raid has been out for multiple weeks, drop rates got buffed in island expeditions so they're mostly done.

The content has been mostly cleared and people learned in Legion that this is the bottom of the wave when you can play something else until major content patch rolls out month from now.
This thread is filled with subjective opinions and half truths.

But kinda odd I have always 10+ people logged into wow when iam online. Maybe people should try make new friends and not cry after the ones who left in woltk.

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