How many subs has wow lost?

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12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
You insult me by pretending to know what I think

It wasn't an insult, it was my subjective opinion. Sorry if it insulted you, that was not my intention.

12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
You mentioned "we" in your post far less than "they" and "them". Are you denying saying the stuff that I linked?

No, I'm saying that when you speak in passive voice you refer to group of people as "them" even if you yourself are included in that group. That's the basic grammar of passive voice and I added the link so we wouldn't need to go on arguing semantics and grammar.

12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
then you say I'm too stupid to understand my own language

Well, to be fair, you're the one who called me a moron first for not knowing the difference between I/me and them etc.

12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
then you tell me "Chill, bro"?

Yes, because looking at your use of language you're either baiting or genuinely angry. If you think my opinion is bull!@#$ then disregard it. We already established that I was mistakenly including you in the group of people that demand to see sub numbers so they can validate their feelings of disappointment.
12/11/2018 12:30Posted by Bagerah
There's no need for numbers, the activity drop is pretty obvious. Friends list dropped from 25 online to ~2, the community I joined which had 15-20 people signed up for raids on a regular basis (and more than 40 online usually) has also been struggling these past 2 weeks, yesterday evening we were only 10 online for the raid, and the recruitment effort needed is permanent.


It's sad that things have got like this so fast.
12/11/2018 17:14Posted by Thedice
12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
You insult me by pretending to know what I think

It wasn't an insult, it was my subjective opinion. Sorry if it insulted you, that was not my intention.

12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
You mentioned "we" in your post far less than "they" and "them". Are you denying saying the stuff that I linked?

No, I'm saying that when you speak in passive voice you refer to group of people as "them" even if you yourself are included in that group. That's the basic grammar of passive voice and I added the link so we wouldn't need to go on arguing semantics and grammar.

12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
then you say I'm too stupid to understand my own language

Well, to be fair, you're the one who called me a moron first for not knowing the difference between I/me and them etc.

12/11/2018 16:58Posted by Brutal
then you tell me "Chill, bro"?

Yes, because looking at your use of language you're either baiting or genuinely angry. If you think my opinion is bull!@#$ then disregard it. We already established that I was mistakenly including you in the group of people that demand to see sub numbers so they can validate their feelings of disappointment.


Ok if you didn't mean to insult me or speak for me then fair enough, let's just agree to disagree about the grammar thing. I see no point in making "enemies" at this point if I won't be sticking around much longer.

Good luck to you "bro". :)
12/11/2018 17:23Posted by Brutal
Good luck to you "bro". :)

Glad we cleared that out. Same to you.
@Recollector: Very interesting and long post... But I am going to have to disagree with at least some parts of it. One major point. Based on the activity and character update figures I have seen (not just my own, but other CensusPlus users as well), I am inclined to believe that we are still way above the levels recorded in May 2016, which at least for EU (and US) realms can be considered the low point of past several years.

Naturally, there are outside factors that do affect things and this from my personal stats from WCR only, but...

May 2016: Character updates submitted 122 334 over 31 days (average 3 946 and fractions).

October 2018: Character updates submitted 189 859 over 30 days (I effectively lost a day due to being absent, average 6 328 and fractions or 6 124 and fractions if I ignore my absence, which I probably should).

November 2018 so far: Character updates submitted 49 894 over 9 days (average 5 543 and fractions or 4 157 and fractions if I ignore my absences). With these two last figures you have to keep in mind that the 12th is not over yet and I have already submitted data that has not been processed at the time of this writing and will be submitting more before the day is done... In other words, the daily update average is going to go up, at least a little bit.

Additional note on the figures above... In my over 10 year WCR experience, I tend to achieve roughly a ratio of 1 update per each 7 to 11 characters seen... If I use the low end figure that means that I have already personally submitted data on roughly 350 000 characters this month, in the upper end would mean around 550 000 characters. Which means that I have personally seen more than 116 000 accounts online and the figure might be as high as 183 000+ this month. Those numbers are based on a typical player averaging three and minor fractions active characters (of levels 20 to 120). People like myself with 50+ are statistical outliers and there are plenty of people who only use one actively (in the 20 to 120 range, since CensusPlus is completely unable to detect activity of 1 to 19 due to Blizzard's API restrictions).

Point of disagreement number two: As far as I am able to tell, there were at the very minimum at least 1,832 million active EU+US accounts as of Sunday early morning hours my time. That is significantly higher than "half of 2,4 million" you suggested in your post. A discrepancy of over 600 000 has to be considered statistically relevant. At least one of us has to be in error. Would you care to explain how you came up with your 1,2 million estimate, thank you?

Point of disagreement number three: While I am having to operate with some guesswork here... You forgot Russia from your post. They are not a huge group, but working backwards from EU data... They have currently three realms listed as full and over a dozen smaller ones. Cross examining activity data from EU realms means that if they have identical realm maximum size criteria and player activity ratios (and I have all reasons to believe they do), Russians still have well in excess of 60 000 active players left and of those... over 18 000 are online right now. Nothing to sneeze at, eh?

End note: Please do note that I am NOT saying that the numbers are not dropping, my calculations do show a declining trend. Given that Blizzard elected to launch 8.1 in December, not this week as I predicted, it is entirely conceivable for the "bleed" to continue for a while and there will be distinct need to very carefully examine the situation once 8.1 has arrived.
10/11/2018 10:38Posted by Toohottodot
No one really knows but personally I think they are at an all time low. Whilst Blizz can try patching things up in 8.1 >> with QOL stuff I don't think its really going to make much of a difference because they built this expansion on a foundation of quicksand and it needs fundamental changes which I don't see happening.

Still there is classic to look forward to and the hope that the next expansion will see an upturn in the fortunes of wow.
Well all they could report for WoW how their live services which are usually free for other MMO's are like race changing... Not a single word about sub numbers or even their precious metric of player engagement.
12/11/2018 20:54Posted by Destruct
10/11/2018 10:38Posted by Toohottodot
No one really knows but personally I think they are at an all time low. Whilst Blizz can try patching things up in 8.1 >> with QOL stuff I don't think its really going to make much of a difference because they built this expansion on a foundation of quicksand and it needs fundamental changes which I don't see happening.

Still there is classic to look forward to and the hope that the next expansion will see an upturn in the fortunes of wow.
Well all they could report for WoW how their live services which are usually free for other MMO's are like race changing... Not a single word about sub numbers or even their precious metric of player engagement.


What happens if they announce sub numbers ? If they are low people will blame the developer. If the are high people will say they are lying and flame activision.

They don’t post the numbers and only a few people cry on the forums.
12/11/2018 20:54Posted by Destruct
Well all they could report for WoW how their live services which are usually free for other MMO's are like race changing... Not a single word about sub numbers or even their precious metric of player engagement.


What other MMO has free race changes?
12/11/2018 17:09Posted by Collagen
and to top it all off at leats 5 of our most reliable raiders are all on a break till 8.1 ... why ?? :most common answer given " outside of raid n m+ there is just nothing worthwhile to do" especially if your not a PVPer
Oh yeah complety forgot to log on today, I'm one of them now. Not even interested in alts anymore...

12/11/2018 23:36Posted by Kappador
What happens if they announce sub numbers ? If they are low people will blame the developer. If the are high people will say they are lying and flame activision.

They don’t post the numbers and only a few people cry on the forums.
What your side won't realize is that they are afraid to publish, but somehow because they don't they have tons of subs. Weird how my friend list and most guilds are practically empty, only the mythic guild is still active on raid nights mostly, I'm not the only one noticing and I recently joined the crew. If Blizzard has so many subs dispell the rumors outright tell how many subs per region we have. But they won't and that's telling it's around 2 a 2.4 million at best world wide while many barely log anymore. We are already in the same content drought that only happens at the end of expansions player wise.
12/11/2018 23:47Posted by Destruct
12/11/2018 17:09Posted by Collagen
and to top it all off at leats 5 of our most reliable raiders are all on a break till 8.1 ... why ?? :most common answer given " outside of raid n m+ there is just nothing worthwhile to do" especially if your not a PVPer
Oh yeah complety forgot to log on today, I'm one of them now. Not even interested in alts anymore...

12/11/2018 23:36Posted by Kappador
What happens if they announce sub numbers ? If they are low people will blame the developer. If the are high people will say they are lying and flame activision.

They don’t post the numbers and only a few people cry on the forums.
What your side won't realize is that they are afraid to publish, but somehow because they don't they have tons of subs. Weird how my friend list and most guilds are practically empty, only the mythic guild is still active on raid nights mostly, I'm not the only one noticing and I recently joined the crew. If Blizzard has so many subs dispell the rumors outright tell how many subs per region we have. But they won't and that's telling it's around 2 a 2.4 million at best world wide while many barely log anymore. We are already in the same content drought that only happens at the end of expansions player wise.


When they said there are more than WA stated people called them liers. Already. If they announce they have 10 million subs no one would believe it. If they say 1 sub everyone would agree that it is true.
And hey I don’t care my friendlist is still full. I have never under 10 people logged in and that after I kicked all people who stopped playing pvp.
i used to pug raid in mop/wod

my friend list in battlenet was full and always everyone was online

in legion when i return to wow only 3 people were online, rest were ''last seen 2-3 months ago to..2 years ago'
deleted everyone and cried inside
12/11/2018 23:55Posted by Kappador
When they said there are more than WA stated people called them liers. Already. If they announce they have 10 million subs no one would believe it. If they say 1 sub everyone would agree that it is true.
And hey I don’t care my friendlist is still full. I have never under 10 people logged in and that after I kicked all people who stopped playing pvp.
The solution is simple announce the real numbers and this stops, start reporting them every quarter again no matter how dire. Afraid of some who will still go on? that's like catering to or being afraid for the 1%, Blizzard would earn tons of respect just being fair with us. Congratz you add so many people to your friendlist and guilds it's never below 10? It's always is with me! So many people 5-2 months offline, even the people I added in the 1st stopped logging... But seeing so many guild agressivly recruiting and so many reporting the friendlist and guilds are empty outside of raid/M+ nights is a big concern. This expansion lost it, it became anathor WoD only this time without lucrative gold missions to keep you logging back in thrice a day and which pushed you to level every char to lv 100.

Edit: I hope 8.1 brings the mood back because I have the same feelings as I had during DS drought in Cata and during WoD, I wanna unsub and never return. This feeling has been there ever since month 2, WoD's problem was no content. BfA's lack of quality and only having content in quantity and rng (island expiditions ridaclous low droprates) rewards.
Why don’t you do it than?
13/11/2018 00:24Posted by Kappador
Why don’t you do it than?
Because I care more about this game than what we call the white knights, I want to see it improve. Also you didn't get the point, but that is common here I will shorten.

BfA is just 3 months old at midnight the 14th (less than 23 hours left) and most people are already in an end of expansion blues. The fault of quantity over quality gameplay. The fault of having no depth left after all the simplification and pruning, nothing to works towards etc. rng is not something to work towards, it's just rng.
Pugs are shiat, guilds are dead outside of raid hours, my friend list is empty and endgame is all about that.

"Why do you complain about sub Numbers? how about you go play the game for real/do content, and if you Don't like it unsub. Oh and when you leave, make sure to close the door behind you. Btw, can I have your stuff?"

Yeah yeah, look at the results now.
At the rate of the tiny minority who constantly complain, my answer to the question "How Many Subs has Wow lost?"

My answer would honestly be.

"Not Enough"
13/11/2018 00:58Posted by Brigante
At the rate of the tiny minority who constantly complain, my answer to the question "How Many Subs has Wow lost?"

My answer would honestly be.

"Not Enough"


the tiny minority complaining is part of the vast majority who already left.

now you either buy a brain ( sense of humour in ++++ option just for you) or you buy a !@#$%^- phone.
13/11/2018 00:58Posted by Brigante
At the rate of the tiny minority who constantly complain, my answer to the question "How Many Subs has Wow lost?"

My answer would honestly be.

"Not Enough"


not enough for who? the horde faction ? ofc its easier for horde (65% of active 120 players ) to find content

its lost TOO MANY on alliance side.

also why are you trolling,,,huh?

13/11/2018 01:05Posted by Nim
13/11/2018 00:58Posted by Brigante
At the rate of the tiny minority who constantly complain, my answer to the question "How Many Subs has Wow lost?"

My answer would honestly be.

"Not Enough"


the tiny minority complaining is part of the vast majority who already left.

now you either buy a brain ( sense of humour in ++++ option just for you) or you buy a !@#$%^- phone.

you took the bait...never fed the trolls with anger..
You know if you overuse a word, it loses its power, rapidly.

But yes, I would not be displeased if the small minority who complain, did Unsub and go.

These forums might actually become a place for people to talk about the game, which will still exist, without you.

also why are you trolling,,,huh?


Grow up. Overuse of that word is why it can never be taken seriously anymore, and your other posts are hardly examples of constructive discourse.
not enough for who? the horde faction ? ofc its easier for horde (65% of active 120 players ) to find content

its lost TOO MANY on alliance side.

also why are you trolling,,,huh?
I only play horde for the Horde only rewards and story not more, also I needed 2nd hunter/mail wearer for transmog farms. I ain't changing. I would just end up making blood elves and nightborne (with 1 forced highmountain tauren/zandalari troll for the druid...). I don't like orcs, tauren, undead, trolls and can barely tolerate a female goblin. I will go down with this faction... The only 2 factions I have respect for that are in the Horde in terms of lore atm are the Tauren and Darkspear, well and Saurfang.

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