The game fosters toxicity and unsociability.

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09/10/2018 13:41Posted by Jurgenhan
The game is not the problem, it is the people that play it. I was in a few battlegrounds about 2 days ago and there was a guy who was screaming, yelling, saying do this or that, despite the fact we were winning. Most of us ignored him, a few basically told him to leave the group and go to rated battlegrounds.

Classic is not going to solve the problem of toxicity and lack of sociability. The issue is that most players are distracted when playing WOW. They maybe streaming on twitch, in discord, or on some other type of messenger. They simply are not that involved socially, unless it is with people they are already friends with. Most gamers today are simply around for instant gratification, hence they love their shooter games, where they can feel like gods and go in and kill up everything.

You could probably make more friends in a discord group than you could in world via WOW.


While I agree that it's the player that are the problem here, what I'm arguing is that the game has created the perfect nesting environment for such behavior to nest and thrive.
09/10/2018 14:15Posted by Paochan
09/10/2018 13:41Posted by Jurgenhan
The game is not the problem, it is the people that play it. I was in a few battlegrounds about 2 days ago and there was a guy who was screaming, yelling, saying do this or that, despite the fact we were winning. Most of us ignored him, a few basically told him to leave the group and go to rated battlegrounds.

Classic is not going to solve the problem of toxicity and lack of sociability. The issue is that most players are distracted when playing WOW. They maybe streaming on twitch, in discord, or on some other type of messenger. They simply are not that involved socially, unless it is with people they are already friends with. Most gamers today are simply around for instant gratification, hence they love their shooter games, where they can feel like gods and go in and kill up everything.

You could probably make more friends in a discord group than you could in world via WOW.


While I agree that it's the player that are the problem here, what I'm arguing is that the game has created the perfect nesting environment for such behavior to nest and thrive.

You would still have the same toxicity and rudeness even if the game was still classic. The issue once again is that players themselves have changed. Whereas you could say hi to someone in the past and have someone answer back, now its met with silence and not just in WOW, but in other games too.

Of course once classic servers return and players run to check it out. Once they realize that their progress is dependent upon making friends and getting into groups (assuming that blizzard does not add a LFG or LFR mode), the players will more than likely quit the game and call it too hard or they will adapt and play nice to accomplish goals.
Ahh this again.

"Blizzard made me unsociable with LFG!"

First off. Do remind me how no one was "toxic" (ridiculous expression) before LFG was introduced, no one was ever abusive, everyone was jolly nice and talked to EVERYONE (lulz) and KNEW (bigger lulz) on their server.

'Ahh' but I hear the "vets" cry. 'We would name and shame those type of people!'

Oh well then that's that then! I mean it's not like they would be as sly to simply make a new character or anything...

Now explain to me how it is Blizzards fault that when people join random people for some reason they have a mystical affliction that prevents them from talking to people they have never met before.

Explain to me how it is they are "allowed" to be complete asshats to people they randomly meet because "eurghh. LFG. I talked to everyone in vanilla..."

Why you could be forgiven for thinking that when WoW first launched every single "veteran" already knew each other and the concept of meeting new random people was completely alien.

So please can it with this complete garbage that people suddenly stopped being nice or stopped being social because of a tool. They did that themselves. If people can't be bothered to type in a simple "hi how you all doin?" when they meet 4 or 24 strangers... I blame them. Regardless of whether they are "veterans" or "noobs". And I've met far more people who claim to be vets are more likely to be the "gogogogogogogo I don't have time to chat with you! Im only here for a reward!!" type than someone who is either new or hasn't done activity before or . "gasp".. shockingly wants to be friendly.

The scoundrel.
08/10/2018 23:42Posted by Punyelf
08/10/2018 23:40Posted by Paochan
Veteran players might recall how groups used to operate before the "looking for dungeon" system was implemented to the game. You had to painstakingly scout out people in your level range, actually talk to them and ask them if they wanted to join you and what roles they could fulfill, travel to the dungeon entrance to summon everybody etc. It was a long and at times even a frustrating process, but the dungeon rewards were still worth the trouble


I remember this time of horrific elitists that would never take me, that were abusive and mean.

You have good short term memory, sounds like last night to me...
08/10/2018 23:48Posted by Arokhantos
They should just turn on voice chat by default, it would help some players a lot as its easy'r to talk then to type something in chat during a fight, why channels aren't joined by default is insanity, let those that do not want to be social opt out instead.

Oh no, please no! I have horrible experiences with open voice chat channels...

My ears are extremely sensitive and I had a few jump scares whenever I played Euro Truck Simulator 2 multiplayer. It would activate whenever you drove near another trucker, or a group of them, and it was ALWAYS either people screaming at the top of their lungs (or so it seems to me) or they were blaring loud music. That chat didn't have volume control and there was no way to turn it off.

Random chatters in voice chat also confuse me in such a way that I can't focus on the game anymore and have to shut it off.

If they would somehow make voice chat in dungeons/raids mandatory, I won't be able to do those anymore.
08/10/2018 23:48Posted by Arokhantos
They should just turn on voice chat by default, it would help some players a lot as its easy'r to talk then to type something in chat during a fight, why channels aren't joined by default is insanity, let those that do not want to be social opt out instead.


Please no, Turkish and Russian will hit my ears with vulgar epithets.
Officially you only pay for ads and spyware.

In this game you have nothing but the jail you create for yourself. Emotional bonding opens the door for extortion.
08/10/2018 23:54Posted by Ájmage
The game you are talking about is still there, but nowadays we call it M+. Blizzard added a really low-level form of content with basically no barrier of entry to the game for those who... I don't know, for some people.

I encourage everyone to try to leave behind the Q-ing system and the game becomes much more enjoyable.

I have added more people to my friend list after some successful runs than from any other type of content.

I know this ain't gonna be a popular post, because a lot of people have a terrible opinion about the current state of M+ and the grouping "system", but I personally find probably the most fun in M+, if it's done with the correct group.


I have to agree on this.

If I had time to do as much m+ as I wanted, I would probably land at least a friend request a day from people who want to play together again.

-Be nice to people
-If people make mistakes, write ''no worries''
-Actually use the chat.
-Bring war-scrolls and drums for insane value for money buffs.
-If someone does well. Compliment them. Write ''Wp xyz'', ''nice healing'', ''nice tanking''

It takes so little effort to actually be nice, and have people want to play with you again. But most of the playerbase seems to not want to write anything in chat unless they are forced to.
Game will always be toxic so long as its competitive.
Blizzard is renowned for creating this type of environment.

Blizzard makes beautiful games, their customer service is top notch when compared to other games, their updates frequent.

... they drop the ball in player toxicity, not because they don't fight it, but because they don't understand it.

It's just how the player bases are, in other games people get so into "winning" that they start using cheat programs, and when they use cheat programs they already don't care about the game, just numbers.

It's the same way here, but Blizzard does not allow them to cheat... but you can't remove the !@#$ out of a piece of %^-* when it comes to diehards that don't play for fun.

Leaving the cursing in because I believe we all sympathize on this: the type of idiot that ruins your dungeons and raids and ruins your favorite games, like Overwatch. "Onyxia is serious business"

So long as they focus more on competitive rather than community like a better overlay for people to chat in text, you won't get rid of this poison.
09/10/2018 16:55Posted by Freya
08/10/2018 23:54Posted by Ájmage
The game you are talking about is still there, but nowadays we call it M+. Blizzard added a really low-level form of content with basically no barrier of entry to the game for those who... I don't know, for some people.

I encourage everyone to try to leave behind the Q-ing system and the game becomes much more enjoyable.

I have added more people to my friend list after some successful runs than from any other type of content.

I know this ain't gonna be a popular post, because a lot of people have a terrible opinion about the current state of M+ and the grouping "system", but I personally find probably the most fun in M+, if it's done with the correct group.


I have to agree on this.

If I had time to do as much m+ as I wanted, I would probably land at least a friend request a day from people who want to play together again.

-Be nice to people
-If people make mistakes, write ''no worries''
-Actually use the chat.
-Bring war-scrolls and drums for insane value for money buffs.
-If someone does well. Compliment them. Write ''Wp xyz'', ''nice healing'', ''nice tanking''

It takes so little effort to actually be nice, and have people want to play with you again. But most of the playerbase seems to not want to write anything in chat unless they are forced to.


Don't like trash farm. On those M+ there is ntohing else than trash mobs.
There is no time to socialize, everything is a speedrun,go go go,no time to type or anything.Everyone is in a hurry because they have to finish the run quickly and then go on a date with a supermodel.
08/10/2018 23:54Posted by Paochan
I bet people wouldn't be anywhere near as mean-spirited as they are now if their voice was projected.


You've not played DOTA2, clearly. :P
09/10/2018 08:06Posted by Iznogood
What they should do is make some kind of social score system, where people can rate one another based on behaviour and interaction with other people.

This way people can know who to stay away from.

And the most toxic people would maybe learn how to behave themself in the long term.


It would be abused straight from word go.
09/10/2018 09:45Posted by Rezista
09/10/2018 09:41Posted by Eulalia
So the veterans haven't learned anything since Vanilla, all except you of course?


Most of them, who are still playing haven't. I was 14 when I started playing WoW, so I can still keep up after 12 years, but people who are older simply can not play at the high-end standart of the game.
That said, there is nothing wrong with playing the game casually, but just because there is a huge skill gap between players nowdays (a lot bigger than what it was in the first 3 expansions), there is nothing toxic people wanting to play with others at the same level.
The toxicity you are talking about simply do not exist in a large scale to be a problem. What you are confising it with is the one that rises when there is a drastic difference of skill level in a single group or raid. And this is not the players fault, it is Blizzards for trying to put people together in the same spot, regardless of that difference.


Toxicity has got nothing to do with skills.

Toxicity can be found anywhere in the game.

This morning in nazmir general chat everyone was flaming eachother, calling eachother !@#$ers, to shoot themselves, to %^-* their mothers and sisters, hoping one another got AIDS and cancer, hit by a car, a train etc+++

I asked "Whats the fighting all about" ?

And i got told to jump off a 100 meter tall bridge. :D
09/10/2018 17:02Posted by Cowlight
There is no time to socialize, everything is a speedrun,go go go,no time to type or anything.Everyone is in a hurry because they have to finish the run quickly and then go on a date with a supermodel.


I think the amount of "Supermodel-daters" among wow-elitists are amazingly low.
08/10/2018 23:40Posted by Paochan
Veteran players might recall how groups used to operate before the "looking for dungeon" system was implemented to the game. You had to painstakingly scout out people in your level range, actually talk to them and ask them if they wanted to join you and what roles they could fulfill, travel to the dungeon entrance to summon everybody etc. It was a long and at times even a frustrating process, but the dungeon rewards were still worth the trouble.

So, what do you do to make that process easier? You create bonds with other players. And how does one form a bond with another human being? Well, not being a jerk is probably a good starting point, I'd say.

Now, let's say you've formed your team and you've all made your way into the dungeon. You couldn't just rush the content as fast as possible for an efficient stream of xp. No, no, no. You had to slowly and carefully navigate the dungeon, marking enemies to indicate target priority and CC, as well as give your healer and casters time to replenish their mana every few pulls.

As a result of the difficulty, players had to communicate with each other in order to agree on what each marking symbol indicated, who should crowd control what, and in some cases (the old sunken temple being a prime example) which route to take and what kind of actions each party member had to perform in order to progress.

If you, during your stay in the group, were polite, knowledgeable, helpful, or just cracked some nice jokes to lift everyone's spirits, you would most certainly land in someone's friend list, which meant that any future dungeon runs would be smoother to organize and quite possibly more enjoyable.

In other words, the game rewarded players for being social and kind. Not only that, but you could say that players that were unsociable and/or toxic were punished by not being invited back to groups, which made the game harder for them.

The current system isn't remotely like that. Most of the time, people don't utter a single word in dungeons unless it is to be bashful about something, usually when something goes wrong or when things aren't progressing at ludicrous speed all the time.

Island expeditions are not as bad, but they're much of the same: You barely have enough time to communicate with your team before the gate lowers, and as soon as it does, you find yourself racing against the clock, leaving no room for any social interactions unless, again, if something goes terribly wrong.

Even warfronts suffer from that, though with 20 people in the group and with the scenario's duration being somewhat long, there's bound to be some people that break the ice here and there.

There are no systems in place that either reward good behavior and sociability or punish toxic behavior and unsociability.

People lately have argued that the game has lost it's RPG elements in favor of a more streamlined MMO experience, but I'd argue that even the MMO experience is starting to fade out.
It's the players that make this world feel alive, not the rich storylines and stunning vistas.

The game needs to incentivize players to be kind and social, rather than solely incentivize them to blindly run dungeons for shiny loot and xp.


Is this a raider.io hate thread in disguise?

Need to know how much I need to ramp up my jimmies.

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