BFA = Battle for the Alliance?

Story
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29/10/2018 09:26Posted by Moradur
Uhm sorry I do not understand little flea. To busy commiting warcrimes for my manipulated warchief... Please explain what you mean...

he was stupid orc when said this, nothing changed. Its all same, story is in circles.
I am not flea, i am night elf kid :P
29/10/2018 09:18Posted by Moradur
@Aster thanks for your answer.

But manipulation does not redeem a whole faction from crimes it commits.

Even more:
It is kinda Sad beeing mindless Idiot with excuse of beeing manipulated mindless Idiot.

I am a wise shaman... I even have a spell, far sight but yea it seems to be space limited... not to use with timed components... As I was manipulated ones by Garrosh/Old Gogs and now by Sylvanas/Old Gods... But hey Blizzard stated, it is not MoP vol. 2...

I understand you.
Nothing will erase what Sylvanas did.

Try my case. RP as a paladin of the Horde.
My character was a defender of the light, member of the paladin order hall follower of the wise prophet Velen in Legion expansion.
Fought alongside Illidan Stormrage.
I still remember his words:
"This crystal doesn't hold 2 messages, but 3.
The last one is for you champion.
You have proven your commitment to Azeroth.
Your dedication, your sacrifice, rivals my own.
But more will be asked of you ... so much more ...
Even now enemies gather and the shadows grow darker.
From this day forward the defense of our world, of all we hold dear ... rests with you."

Yet my character is ordered right at the start to march on Ashenvale and kill Night Elfs and endanger Tyrande and Malfurion the 2 people he loved the most ...
So in BfA my character is a:
War criminal follower of Sylvanas and traitor of the Horde afterwards.

I was totally in sinchrony with Saurfang in the "Old Soldier" video.
As stated in the Shogun Total War game 1999: "If you lose your honor you must also lose your head."
My character would had trown herself in the enemie lines as Saurfang wanted to do it if given the opportunity.

My opinion:
Sad reality, you and I are a minority.
Just check how many Horde posters are praising Sylvanas actions and asking for Baine and Saurfang head.
We just have to accept the community dictates many of the story elements.
I don't see any of the Alliance players being ok with burning civilians and doing war crimes, if it was their faction.

Cheers.
Baine for Anduin

tragic lovestory between a cow and feminine human boy
29/10/2018 09:31Posted by Pinkfist
29/10/2018 09:26Posted by Moradur
Uhm sorry I do not understand little flea. To busy commiting warcrimes for my manipulated warchief... Please explain what you mean...

he was stupid orc when said this, nothing changed. Its all same, story is in circles.
I am not flea, i am night elf kid :P
The change was, that tjey wasn't slaves of the burning legion anymore. He could just life in peace after Gul'dans betrayal, but he wanted to start a war in a other dimensions. Yeah, kinda stupid.

29/10/2018 09:18Posted by Moradur
Even more:
It is kinda Sad beeing mindless Idiot with excuse of beeing manipulated mindless Idiot.
Yeah, that it is. All leaders of the horde, except of Rokhan, Baine & Saurfang are now. How they want to make the horde great again after this?
First i want to say : Im not trying to be rude to You
29/10/2018 09:40Posted by Aster

Try my case. RP as a paladin of the Horde.
My character was a defender of the light, member of the paladin order hall follower of the wise prophet Velen in Legion expansion.
Fought alongside Illidan Stormrage.
I still remember his words:
"This crystal doesn't hold 2 messages, but 3.
The last one is for you champion.
You have proven your commitment to Azeroth.
Your dedication, your sacrifice, rivals my own.
But more will be asked of you ... so much more ...
Even now enemies gather and the shadows grow darker.
From this day forward the defense of our world, of all we hold dear ... rests with you."


thats the problem. U were RPing as member of the Horde in ALLIANCE narrative, if we will take STORY/LORE u werent there, it was Alliance.
29/10/2018 03:03Posted by Gnomewicked
One cannot help but wonder how the Alliance has managed to "unite and grow stonger", yet lose pretty much everything in this war so far.
  • Tree gets burned
  • Alliance rushes to claim some city ruins - gets more ruins, uninhabitable and plagued
  • Captures Saurfang - he simply escapes
  • Time to unite - night elves quit
  • Tyrande undertakes an anime fanfic-level transformation to become an extra-strong lady - cannot even destroy Nathanos
  • Alliance strikes back at Zandalar - loses a race leader


-the overall story... the bigger picture!
Why can people only nick pick at things now a day?

Right anyhow time to attack your points.

the burning of the tree after math of a war, where the mighty veterans of the Horde, had trouble fighting the Juniors of the Night elven military of the first half.
the Night elves almost managed to halt an army eight times the forces at their disposal.
the Horde wins followed by the idiotic burning completely destroying any faction pride the Horde player might have felt from this accomplishment and are driven to hate their ruler.

the Story telling the Horde player to feel no pride in defeating their enemy.


the siege of the UC ( which has a lot of moments of cool and less realism to them)

the Horde is attacked by a much larger army and can't even last for 30 minutes against the Alliance onslaught, even though they've a keep and everything.
they summon a marvel of engineering the Azerite machine.
Which the Alliance destroys effortlessly regardless of which side you played as.

the Forsaken then uses their most powerful arsenal the blight a whole new type they spent years making better and stronger than the last ones.
they manage to push back the enemy that's basically at their door steps!

but what's this? Lady Pan appears upon her flying ship and not only undoes the plague in a manner of seconds? She also breaks down the walls in the same amount of time.

Lady pan then also later destroys the Banshee Queen's plan to murder the leadership. Banzai Horde feel great!
Oh wait no, only the Alliance is cheered for here.
I am not bringing up the Void portal of Alleria because I liked that part and was simply a military good move.

Hmm what's next?
Saurfang escapes...
You mean gets let out by the SI:7 with Shaw even making sure that the outposts he is passing by are drunk and occupied so that he won't get recaptured.

Look Horde!
Your Mighty High-Overlord is a tool for the Alliance don't you feel great?

So yes Tyrande becomes the Night Warrior and obliterate's an entire forsaken base with one spell, grants the Night elves the power they need to regain footing into Darkshore.
and allows two forsaken members to live to tell the Banshee Queen that the Kal'dorei are retaking their home.
Thus resulting in the Alliance being able to launch an assault into Kalimdoor, because Tyrande literally granted her whole people a great power boost, to the degree that the Horde Champion one of the most powerful and skilled individuals within the Horde has to go out and kill them.

But you rather shout about how she's unable to kill Nathanos, because what you can't feel great unless a Horde Hero dies to an alliance hero?
is that the kind of mentality we are down to?
MY dad beats your dad?

She has Nathanos running for his life!
for crying out loud and that's even after two powerful night elves were reconditioned into Forsaken service.

the Alliance obliterates the Golden fleet, takes out the King of the Zandalari, kills the champions of the Loa of Zandalar.
Leaves the Zandalari empire in ruins.

but it is a loss because one Alliance hero goes and takes an ice nap for a while?

Look I am not saying the Horde needs to win this war, I am not saying that the story is unconditionally biased towards the Alliance either.

What I am saying is that the Horde wants their story to feel them with pride for being Horde, our accomplishments needs the follow with a narrative that make us feel great.
With out having it ripped from under us to simply tell us to feel bad, question ourselves and watch as our beloved faction is basically dying before our very eyes.

also the Night elves pulling out there sure are a lot of night elves sacrificing themselves for the Alliance's plan to lure away the Horde from Zuldazar.
One which for the record I absolutely love!

the War Campaigns are more or less great for both sides.
but the whole over-tone of the Story has you telling as a Horde player what you're doing is wrong.
Your leaders are telling you mostly that it is wrong.

and you cannot argue against it because your enemy does nothing do anything that can make you justify going to the lengths happening in some cases.

-side note I need to level my void elf finished so I can get them nelf eyes.

right back to the topic at hand.

the main point with this title is basically the bigger picture of the Story has the Horde literally hating itself.
and I am not talking the Alliance kind where you go- this is dumb, oh my god Anduin why are you such a pansy?

I am talking about that as a Horde player you feel like someone is trying to take your Horde Banner (physical manifestation of Faction Pride)
rip it to pieces slowly as you stand helplessly watching, then the person moves to burn the pieces to ash followed by taking those ashes and reassemble them into the banner, with even the slight push of wind making it all fall apart again.

You don't have Horde players happy that they can battle their enemy of being simply frustrated at defeat or victory.
You have Horde players going: Why in the World are no one turning around and cutting the head of Sylvanas already?

If I as a Horde player is going to pull out dirty tactics, performing unspeakable horrors in the name of War.
I want a bloody good reason, I want to feel like fighting the enemy.
I want to be able to say that this is wrong, but it is necessary for the continual survival of the Horde.

I Basically want the same feeling the Alliance gets.
-this is necessary
-This might not be entirely okay but it must be done.
- Heck yeah another brilliant move moving us closer to victory!

There is nothing out there right now making anything justifiable for the Horde to be doing as they are doing.

Can you say the same for the Alliance?

as for people saying: Only Sylvanas wanted this war.

Stormheim would beg to differ.
Before the Storm would beg to differ.

It is true between Anduin and Sylvanas.
but that's as far as this goes.
@Sariku I agree with you in all points. But there are still some people outside, who says "Sylvanas did nithing wrong", "that's Saurfangs fault, "Taurajo!". I think that blizz want also to split the horde at this point (you have to chose Sylvanas or Saurfang), but why? I really hate the faction right now. All my favorite characters like Rexxar or Lilian Voss are... gone now. A they are doing now just destroys the faction pride.
29/10/2018 10:00Posted by Beliarh
First i want to say : Im not trying to be rude to You
29/10/2018 09:40Posted by Aster

Try my case. RP as a paladin of the Horde.
My character was a defender of the light, member of the paladin order hall follower of the wise prophet Velen in Legion expansion.
Fought alongside Illidan Stormrage.
I still remember his words:
"This crystal doesn't hold 2 messages, but 3.
The last one is for you champion.
You have proven your commitment to Azeroth.
Your dedication, your sacrifice, rivals my own.
But more will be asked of you ... so much more ...
Even now enemies gather and the shadows grow darker.
From this day forward the defense of our world, of all we hold dear ... rests with you."


thats the problem. U were RPing as member of the Horde in ALLIANCE narrative, if we will take STORY/LORE u werent there, it was Alliance.

I completely understand your point of view.

But than i ask you this:
-Why Vol'Jin died in Broken Shore ?
-Why Sylvanas, Thrall, Baine were there ?
-I remember seeing Horde soldiers lying dead in the Broken Shore, One of Sylvanas Dark rangers, is seen at the start of the Alliance video in Legion to be trowned of the cliff by the legion forces. Why ?
-If the Alliance is our enemie than why we didn't let them fight alone and be wiped out in the Broken shore ?

-The Horde owns much of what we have today to the Legion:
Gul'Dan existed because of the legion, they gave him power, he than gave the orcs the blood of mannoroth which made them in to strong warriors.
Yes it was Medivh that opened the portal, but correct if I am wrong, it was Gul'Dan that guided the Horde to Azeroth.
If it wasn't for Arthas corruption by the nathrezim driving him berseck he wouldn't had picked froustmourne and became a death knight.
If it wasn't for Arthas there would not be Sylvanas Windrunner banshee queen and Forsaken.
Blood Elves: They had problems with their magic addiction they found the solution by absorbing fel magic and that's why they have green eyes today.
Magical addiction
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Magical_addiction
"There, he met Illidan, and pledged his allegiance to the half-demon in return for a cure for magical addiction. Illidan had something else in mind, however. He informed the prince that there was no cure, but that the addiction could be sated. He shared with Kael'thas the ability to drain mana from various arcane-bearing sources, even demons."

So right at the start you have 3 Horde races, that should be fighting along side Sargeras, not helping the Alliance.

Yet the Horde didn't do it and went on and help the Alliance.

Sorry but i think we were there !

Cheers.
@Shandyr
Rokhan is not even a leader now.
Baine is a weak charakter... but it is only my PoV...
And Sauerfang... well Sauerfang. THIS is the warchief, the Horde deserves. But the way, HOW Blizzard installs him is not acceptable for me. I hate the fact, that the horde destroys it self again only because the warchief forgets all the things hin believes in from one day to an other.

The best way for me, to bring Sauerfang to the lead, would be the Union of the Horde without external "Help" and without an Rebelion 2.0. But this not possible anymore. Blizzard locked this door by turning Sylvanas into her current being. At the end of expansion, we will either kill Sylvanas, or redeemed Sylvanas will sacrifice her self. No matter what, she will vanish.
And Sauerfang will become the Warchief. And the new cycle begins.
29/10/2018 10:27Posted by Moradur
And Sauerfang will become the Warchief. And the new cycle begins.
Or Baine. I know the most of you don't like him, but he could also be a favorite of blizz.
@Sariku
Thanks for the post. This is what I desperately try to point to.

Great writing...
29/10/2018 10:37Posted by Shandyr
29/10/2018 10:27Posted by Moradur
And Sauerfang will become the Warchief. And the new cycle begins.
Or Baine. I know the most of you don't like him, but he could also be a favorite of blizz.

Both can be a choice.
But we have a problem, assuming Blizzard is changing the plot (minor stuff) because the community is complaining, who would fit the Horde as Warchief without anoying the Horde players that like Sylvanas ?
I would not trust to be Saurfang or Baine, look how many deaths/traitor threads we have ongoing on the story forum.
I read from a post of Zarao it's even worst case for Baine in the Us forums.

Cheers.
29/10/2018 10:37Posted by Shandyr
29/10/2018 10:27Posted by Moradur
And Sauerfang will become the Warchief. And the new cycle begins.
Or Baine. I know the most of you don't like him, but he could also be a favorite of blizz.


If Saurfang or Baine will become our Warchief...
I will make Alliance Paladin. And i will start to spread human potiential across Azeroth.
24/10/2018 00:39Posted by Sariku
Which honestly makes little sense if you look at the structure of the Horde.
-If you dislike the leadership you can claim it through ritual combat.

[/quote]
Finally, someone realises this! Ol' Saurfang needs to stop with his exile, march into Orgrimmar, and challenge the elf corpse to a Mak'gora. She won't stand a chance without her tricks in honest combat.
29/10/2018 11:00Posted by Ashval
24/10/2018 00:39Posted by Sariku
Which honestly makes little sense if you look at the structure of the Horde.
-If you dislike the leadership you can claim it through ritual combat.


Finally, someone realises this! Ol' Saurfang needs to stop with his exile, march into Orgrimmar, and challenge the elf corpse to a Mak'gora. She won't stand a chance without her tricks in honest combat.


My opinion: it would be exactly as the Gul'Dan vs Durotan fight.
Plus Gul'dan was a Warlock, but a living being, Sylvanas is a banshee and she is known for not being a honorable person.
Warcraft Durotan vs Gul'dan Warcraft 2016 4K ULTRA HD ( TopMix Show )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbIYTRkMXXw

Cheers.
29/10/2018 11:06Posted by Aster

My opinion: it would be exactly as the Gul'Dan vs Durotan fight.

She doesn't really need to do any of that. Greymame could barely hit her, and that's a superpowered wolf man with enhanced strength and agility. An old orc with an axe would have no chance.
I would actually love to see a Mak'gora in game, even if it would hurt the horde more than anything else.
29/10/2018 10:45Posted by Aster
29/10/2018 10:37Posted by Shandyr
...Or Baine. I know the most of you don't like him, but he could also be a favorite of blizz.

Both can be a choice.
But we have a problem, assuming Blizzard is changing the plot (minor stuff) because the community is complaining, who would fit the Horde as Warchief without anoying the Horde players that like Sylvanas ?
I would not trust to be Saurfang or Baine, look how many deaths/traitor threads we have ongoing on the story forum.
I read from a post of Zarao it's even worst case for Baine in the Us forums.

Cheers.


Lorthe'mar Theron.

No, really he would be perfect.
He has no interests for conquest nor is he the kind of person to enforce anything upon others unless it is an absolute necessity.
He has walked the path of Damnation and returned from it.
he has no love for the Alliance, but he is neither vengeful against them.
His main concern is the people of Quel'thalas, if such devotion is spread to the rest of the Horde.
We would prosper for generations.

He is no pacifist like Baine, nor is he bound by tradition like Saurfang.
He is a lot more popular than you actually should think and he is no bad guy.
He even allowed Alleria into the Sunwell, did banish her after because her existence was too great a threat for the people.
He gracefully allowed her to even leave, rather than trying to stop her with his forces.

He has experience with the Alliance and the Horde.
Not to mention the Alliance would likely not be worried about him starting another war with them out of the blue.
He is also the most skilled politician within the last Rebellion leaders and would secure a beneficial peace treaty for the Horde with the Alliance.

29/10/2018 10:43Posted by Moradur
@Sariku
Thanks for the post. This is what I desperately try to point to.

Great writing...


My thank you.

29/10/2018 10:23Posted by Shandyr
@Sariku I agree with you in all points. But there are still some people outside, who says "Sylvanas did nithing wrong", "that's Saurfangs fault, "Taurajo!". I think that blizz want also to split the horde at this point (you have to chose Sylvanas or Saurfang), but why? I really hate the faction right now. All my favorite characters like Rexxar or Lilian Voss are... gone now. A they are doing now just destroys the faction pride.


Yes and that's exactly my point.
the Horde Player base exists and we are quit the numbers too.
So, why are we given a narrative that tell us to go away and feel ashamed?
in an expansion that's meant to enforce the pride of either faction.
Only one is allowed to.

I am not saying there are not issue with the Alliance narrative, but compared to the Horde at the moment and foreseeable future?
Your issues are and I know this will make a lot of people hate on me now!
First world problems in compare.

Granted once I have level up my alliance fully and been through all things in 8.1 I'm going to make a different topic focusing upon both of the Narratives as a whole, as well as granting to some insight how I believe the over-all tone is then.

as I said 8.1 shows some promise just not enough for the Horde.

we were promised not to be given another SOO story but so far that's all we are getting.
Only unlike mists?
where it was known ahead and that it slowly got enforced slowly through the Story?

We are getting thrown into our faces from the first minute that we are losing another Iconic character.
While the Alliance are given more, and more.. and do I dare say it more?!

Not to mention the scaling of powerful Horde characters is... 1? Maybe 2.

while the Alliance has at least.. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7.
assuming I am counting correctly and not forgotten anyone.
24/10/2018 13:15Posted by Aster
The only reason I believe the Alliance won't be able to kill Sylvanas is because Blizzard knows that it would have a flood of complains from her supporters.
Curious case of Sylvanas.
A character that grew bigger than the faction she's in, to the point of being more important than the Horde itself. My opinion of course.

[/quote]

Totally true. She could destroy all Horde cities, raise all of its inhabitants as mindless Forsaken and declare war on the neutral factions too (which is what would eventually happen if she won this war) and lots of Horde players would still support her. Some of them would even find lore reasons to do so. Horde identity and traditions be damned.
Lorthe'mar Theron.

No, really he would be perfect.
He has no interests for conquest nor is he the kind of person to enforce anything upon others unless it is an absolute necessity.
He has walked the path of Damnation and returned from it.
he has no love for the Alliance, but he is neither vengeful against them.
His main concern is the people of Quel'thalas, if such devotion is spread to the rest of the Horde.
We would prosper for generations.

He is no pacifist like Baine, nor is he bound by tradition like Saurfang.
He is a lot more popular than you actually should think and he is no bad guy.
He even allowed Alleria into the Sunwell, did banish her after because her existence was too great a threat for the people.
He gracefully allowed her to even leave, rather than trying to stop her with his forces.

He has experience with the Alliance and the Horde.
Not to mention the Alliance would likely not be worried about him starting another war with them out of the blue.
He is also the most skilled politician within the last Rebellion leaders and would secure a beneficial peace treaty for the Horde with the Alliance.

+1
... and 14.7%of Wow Eu plays a Blood Elf too, which means people playing Blood Elfs that support Sylvanas, would have to accept a Blood Elf leader. Makes sense.
"Distribution of World of Warcraft characters in U.S. and EU realms as of July 2018, by race"
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/

29/10/2018 12:05Posted by Lightblade

Totally true. She could destroy all Horde cities, raise all of its inhabitants as mindless Forsaken and declare war on the neutral factions too (which is what would eventually happen if she won this war) and lots of Horde players would still support her. Some of them would even find lore reasons to do so. Horde identity and traditions be damned.

Thank you.
BfA started with the "War Of The Thorns". There was 2 books about that war "Elegy" and "Good War".

In those 2 books many notable Alliance characters were killed by the Horde.
In those 2 books only one notable Horde character was killed by the Alliance. His name is Lorash.

And in 8.1. Horde will bring him back. . . Lorash is again Horde character.

So question to the TS. Is BfA really about Alliance? Like really? Horde didn't lost any characters, and alliance characters now rise and joins the Horde. Like Delaryn...

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