Any chance to get group loot back in instances ?

General
I can't begin to count the amount of times I've witnessed first hand people getting unneeded loot but not willing to give it away to those who actually ran the instance for that very item.
Most of the time the reason is as stupid as people /leaving then insta HS without even caring to read the chat, not giving a single damn about it even though people had asked beforehand whether we needed the wanted item or not. Other times it was for punishing the person for low dps, bad healing/tanking and whatnot.

To be perfectly honest I do believe this system can come across as useful, but most of the times it feels simply bad and worse than the good ol' group loot.
How did the old group loot stop someone from pressing "need" to do the same thing?
Any chance to get group loot back in instances ?

No chance at all.

27/10/2018 16:21Posted by Leymaiden
How did the old group loot stop someone from pressing "need" to do the same thing?

People could only need on certain items.
27/10/2018 16:21Posted by Leymaiden
How did the old group loot stop someone from pressing "need" to do the same thing?

I'm talking about people who don't care even about their own loot.

That aside, it didn't, but they could very well implemant an option that makes the whole group roll for one item at a time, and not be able to do so again once they've won a roll. It's similar to the current personal loot thingy, but working in a much better way...

27/10/2018 16:22Posted by Dottie
No chance at all.

And why so ?
27/10/2018 16:21Posted by Leymaiden
How did the old group loot stop someone from pressing "need" to do the same thing?

People could only need on certain items.


Well, they only get what they can use now too. So that means they would in such case need on the same item.

Personally I don't mind Personal Loot. I have used it for 1 and a half year already, and it works out perfectly fine. In connection to group loot I am having a much better experience now. It was extremely frustrating seeing people not needing gear as upgrades, needing on items. With personal loot I never ask people for items, and I am never bothered when people get items, because I know it's their loot and fairly handed to them without human selfishness or as*hattery involved.

In relation to master loot, it feels pretty much the same. I was a dedicated raider in the past, and I don't notice the difference between master loot and personal loot. Like I said, started using personal loot in raids 1 and a half year ago as a casual raider, and overall the result feels the same, if not actually better with personal loot. And I'm talking about overall loot contribution to the team, not for my own sakes. You can try tell me off about it as much as you like, but I've seen these debates over and over agin, and it's usually people with lacking experience with personal loot over time, who claims it is so much worse. You won't change my opinion. Feel free to have yours though. Just saying it advance, because I know someone will attempt to arrest me for my positive experience with personal loot.

Edit: I broke the quote, but should make sense anyways...
27/10/2018 17:16Posted by Aylish
Well, they only get what they can use now too. So that means they would in such case need on the same item.

No because there are items that can be used by everyone, such as rings and cloaks, and when they fall in the wrong hands it can sometimes spell doom for those who actually need them.
27/10/2018 17:16Posted by Aylish
Personally I don't mind Personal Loot. I have used it for 1 and a half year already, and it works out perfectly fine. In connection to group loot I am having a much better experience now. It was extremely frustrating seeing people not needing gear as upgrades, needing on items. With personal loot I never ask people for items, and I am never bothered when people get items, because I know it's their loot and fairly handed to them without human selfishness or as*hattery involved.

In relation to master loot, it feels pretty much the same. I was a dedicated raider in the past, and I don't notice the difference between master loot and personal loot. Like I said, started using personal loot in raids 1 and a half year ago as a casual raider, and overall the result feels the same, if not actually better with personal loot. And I'm talking about overall loot contribution to the team, not for my own sakes. You can try tell me off about it as much as you like, but I've seen these debates over and over agin, and it's usually people with lacking experience with personal loot over time, who claims it is so much worse. You won't change my opinion. Feel free to have yours though. Just saying it advance, because I know someone will attempt to arrest me for my positive experience with personal loot.

Nice and all but I don't see how this serves the topic in any way. All I read is "I never had any problem with it so far cause I'm lucky so no need to change it".
You know what ? It worked and still works sh!t for lots of other people out there, and there's more than a way to make things better.
Whisper them asking for item, and if they won't part with it, it's on them, they looted the item and can do as they please with it.
You have no rights to loot others want that they want to keep. Maybe they want to DE it.
27/10/2018 17:12Posted by Sariath
And why so ?


It was taken away because WoW players couldn't play nice with each other. Nothing has changed.

Before personal loot Normal and Heroic raids we would have multiple ninja threads. When it was implemented they disappeared overnight.

If guilds didn't fiddle loot then they wouldn't have changed that to personal loot for Mythic raids.

Remember Blizzard see all (through logs) so loot anecdotes of your guildies and your brother-in-laws second cousin twice removed by aliens doesn't matter, as Blizzard knows 100% how loot is handled.

WoW players in general can't be trusted. That's not an opinion that's from the game logs.
27/10/2018 22:11Posted by Kamazh
You have no rights to loot others want that they want to keep. Maybe they want to DE it.


Or keep it for mog.
27/10/2018 22:20Posted by Someoneelse
27/10/2018 17:12Posted by Sariath
And why so ?


It was taken away because WoW players couldn't play nice with each other. Nothing has changed.

Before personal loot Normal and Heroic raids we would have multiple ninja threads. When it was implemented they disappeared overnight.

If guilds didn't fiddle loot then they wouldn't have changed that to personal loot for Mythic raids.

Remember Blizzard see all (through logs) so loot anecdotes of your guildies and your brother-in-laws second cousin twice removed by aliens doesn't matter, as Blizzard knows 100% how loot is handled.

WoW players in general can't be trusted. That's not an opinion that's from the game logs.

I take all of this, and can but agree with you. This is why I said in my very forst post that I do think the personal loot option happens to prove useful.
However it's sad the way they got to handle the ninja attitude. Ever since Vanilla guilds resorted to the "one need per run" rule that's still working perfectly fine nowadays. I wish they made group loot work this way so that it makes people give it a thought before needing anything they get their hands on.
27/10/2018 16:17Posted by Sariath
I can't begin to count the amount of times I've witnessed first hand people getting unneeded loot but not willing to give it away


How you now they don't need it?
Loot can be needed to disenchant, scrap or just sold for gold.

It's personal loot and people are free to do with it whatever they want.

Now that we have a scrapper, I like to scrap the loot I got and I also not bother asking others for their drops.
Few guilds are like that. It is attributing too much nobility to guilds to think lootmasters doesnt play favorites. Now, things are equal as it should be.
27/10/2018 22:37Posted by Eightyfive
27/10/2018 16:17Posted by Sariath
I can't begin to count the amount of times I've witnessed first hand people getting unneeded loot but not willing to give it away


How you now they don't need it?

Because they said themselves ? Do you think I'd be making such a thread if those people actually needed those items... ?
27/10/2018 22:37Posted by Eightyfive
Loot can be needed to disenchant, scrap or just sold for gold.

So it's better for me to scrap an item rather than giving away it to someone else who needs it ? Amazing...
27/10/2018 22:37Posted by Eightyfive
It's personal loot and people are free to do with it whatever they want.
Now that we have a scrapper, I like to scrap the loot I got and I also not bother asking others for their drops.

Do you remember the disenchant option in the group loot ? It came after greed, which came after need. I'll let you guess the reason behind this order.
I was expecting this kind of empty comments and swore not to answer to any, but this is not about you or what you like so if you can't see beyond that please refrain from posting in the first place...
<span class="truncated">...</span>

How you now they don't need it?

Because they said themselves ? Do you think I'd be making such a thread if those people actually needed those items... ?


They didn't need and they didn't want to share it with you. It's their right to keep the loot THEY got.
27/10/2018 22:37Posted by Eightyfive
Loot can be needed to disenchant, scrap or just sold for gold.

So it's better for me to scrap an item rather than giving away it to someone else who needs it ? Amazing...[/quote]
Scrapping an item for me, benefits me. I know its very selfish, but how will I know for sure trading an item to a stranger won't result in them scrapping it themselves?

27/10/2018 22:37Posted by Eightyfive
It's personal loot and people are free to do with it whatever they want.
Now that we have a scrapper, I like to scrap the loot I got and I also not bother asking others for their drops.


Do you remember the disenchant option in the group loot ? It came after greed, which came after need. I'll let you guess the reason behind this order.

Ye I remember it only being available if there was an enchanter in the group and completely devalued enchanting materials.


I was expecting this kind of empty comments and swore not to answer to any, but this is not about you or what you like so if you can't see beyond that please refrain from posting in the first place...


I suppose it's all about you and others not agreeing with you have no rights to post their own opinion.
27/10/2018 23:00Posted by Eightyfive
They didn't need and they didn't want to share it with you. It's their right to keep the loot THEY got.

See the difference between you and me ?
Unlike you I don't make it a personal matter, but instead address the case as a general issue which anyone can suffer from. And if you had a proper reading of my first post, you would've seen that in no way did I speak for myself or about my own experience.
Scrapping an item for me, benefits me. I know its very selfish, but how will I know for sure trading an item to a stranger won't result in them scrapping it themselves?

By inspecting players ? Have you never done it when more than one person asked for your loot ?
Oh, I know, it's too much work. Why bother when scrapping is a lot worthier...
Ye I remember it only being available if there was an enchanter in the group and completely devalued enchanting materials.

I see you didn't get my point at all. Why am I even bothering ?
I suppose it's all about you and others not agreeing with you have no rights to post their own opinion.

No, it's merely about people who have the capacity to look further than the tip of their nose, and you don't seem to rate among them unfortunately.
People still can press need even they dont need the item. In example haste crit bis player can click need for versa mastery . Which is your bis . Greedy people will always exist.
27/10/2018 23:33Posted by Lagemas
People still can press need even they dont need the item. In example haste crit bis player can click need for versa mastery . Which is your bis . Greedy people will always exist.

I agree, is why I suggested above to make it one item per run, especially in M+.
You can need on everything, it'd stuck at the first roll you win. That should deter people from needing everything.

That is to say there are other ways to deal with greedy people, and personal loot is not the best of them in my opinion.
27/10/2018 23:00Posted by Eightyfive
They didn't need and they didn't want to share it with you. It's their right to keep the loot THEY got.

See the difference between you and me ?
Unlike you I don't make it a personal matter, but instead address the case as a general issue which anyone can suffer from. And if you had a proper reading of my first post, you would've seen that in no way did I speak for myself or about my own experience.
Scrapping an item for me, benefits me. I know its very selfish, but how will I know for sure trading an item to a stranger won't result in them scrapping it themselves?

By inspecting players ? Have you never done it when more than one person asked for your loot ?
Oh, I know, it's too much work. Why bother when scrapping is a lot worthier...
Ye I remember it only being available if there was an enchanter in the group and completely devalued enchanting materials.

I see you didn't get my point at all. Why am I even bothering ?
I suppose it's all about you and others not agreeing with you have no rights to post their own opinion.

No, it's merely about people who have the capacity to look further than the tip of their nose, and you don't seem to rate among them unfortunately.


I meant "you" in a general way. Not specifically YOU Sariath. blaming me for not reading, may I blame you for not getting context.

Funny thing I actually rarely pug and when I do pug and get loot I don't need, I often do offer it for trading. I am not gonna bother inspecting people and play judge on who needs it most.
For the dungeon finder and Looking For Raid, I think Personal Loot is great.
People can be dissatisfied about someone else getting loot, but at least it can't be stolen by needlessly pressing the Need button.

For me, who doesn't do a lot of queue able content, Personal Loot is hurtful towards groups of friends/guildies. I often find myself not being able to trade an item to someone I know and will benefit the group I play with.

I do still stand with my opinion that for queue able content, Personal Loot is Personal Loot and anyone who gets that loot is free to do with it what ever they want.
They shouldn't be a dick about it though. A simple no will suffice.

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