I think we should stop listening to casuals

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8/8 LFR....
22/10/2018 16:10Posted by Abacabb
I keep reading this fluffy language about how casual players, and I mean the low effort, tunnel zerg lfr style casuals should have a voice in this game.

We can see statistically this game went downhill after wotlk, and in an attempt to recover from losing a freight train filled with millions of players off the edge of a cliff, they introduced a lot of casual friendly content. "Players, we hear you!" They said.

As time goes on this game has been trying its hardest to have content for literally every possible type of player who wants to sub and blizzard goes on to invent a loot system where even the very bottom of the barrel casuals have access to 385ilvl loot through TF.

I just wanna say this: no, the players who join without the intention of progressing shouldn't have a voice or any dictatorship over the direction of this game.

Call me elitist with my non substantial account but I've been here since the beginning on and off and I always wanted to get into this game in a dedicated way. To earn the bis raid gear, reach high ranks in pvp but life gets in the way and that's fine. I'm happy. I always expected the most elite content to be out of my reach and when I wanted to reach it, when I had the time the game was already transformed and I didn't see the inspiration in it anymore so I stuck to unranked BGs and mog farming instead.

The game by design should go the way the most dedicated players have suggested. They call for things like class depth, choice in development and more RPG style elements. They want more intricate lore based quests, just overall a higher quality and far more expansive version of the game we had back in 2004.

Why wouldn't we listen to these players? I don't understand the logic to listening to the absolute casuals (the unskilled gambling addicts) when it was a game of depth and sophistication that attracted them in the first place. The catch 22 here is that if you cater to these types of casuals then you cater to a very short attention span and while you data may show them to be a majority and therefore your main source of income, if the elite aren't there for the hardcore then the casuals get bored and leave based on the idea that WoW isn't a thing anymore.

If the elites go, the casuals go too and then you're just left with the last bastion effortists who will leave too.

Cater to quality RPG content, like the elites want, let's us customise our classes and play how we like to, to stack the stats we want and aim for the best and you indirectly create a gigantic community bustling with casuals anyway because they're attracted to the game, but more so the community and aspire to the elites. The exact same effect the game had in the first place.


https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624502593?page=1

I thought you quit and i cba to say what others have said but without casuals you wouldnt have a game to play although you have achived nothing of note whilst playing yourself so you have no right to talk down to others .
Start paying everyones subs then you have a right until then do one and shuush .
This kind of extremist view is no more helpful than the lets make everything as casual as possible approach.

We need a happy medium.
i was very casual and didnt understand most of the game during the first years of my playtime(vanilla and tbc) and i was very happy with what i had. i didnt care that i didnt have top gear and skill. WHY WOULD I WANT THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME AND BE EXTREMELY SKILLED WHEN I BARELY PLAY THE GAME AND UNDERSTAND IT??? u gotta work for it ffs. not complain on the forums that the game is very hard and unfair for u.
ppl have become so !@#$ing spoiled. they play 1-2 hours a day and want to be on the same gear and skill lvl as someone that plays 4+ a day? because of these ppl the game is in this state. do u think ppl in vanilla were crying that they arent as geared as some guy they have just seen? no, it was a motivation. and it was a damn good motivation.
the sad thing is that BLIZZARD chose to cater to these ppl. gotta make more ppl play the game, right? well, see how that turned out...
22/10/2018 21:49Posted by Punyelf
This kind of extremist view is no more helpful than the lets make everything as casual as possible approach.

We need a happy medium.


This view isn't only extremist it is incredibly selfish and arrogant. Such people probally thought back in vanilla Grand Marshals are the most worthy people to even be alive and treated other players like crap nonstop. We are ALL paying customers, so it is a RIGHT to have our voices heard regarding of our performance progressing end game content.
blizzard have been rewarding terrible players since the end of tbc , don't expect it to change now
22/10/2018 16:10Posted by Abacabb
I just wanna say this: no, the players who join without the intention of progressing shouldn't have a voice or any dictatorship over the direction of this game.


Oh the irony, ilvl 453 and only LFR clear of Uldir talks !@#$ about casuals.
22/10/2018 16:40Posted by Zamuro
the game is in this state because they tried to please the casuals


But what is really a casual tho? I consider myself a casual because I don't like raiding and high end PvP, and I'm nowhere near a pro at anything, yet I find myself a "oldschool" player that enjoyed the old way of grinding stuff like rep with just kills, slow levelling with slow xp gain and easy to get killed by pulling 1 mob to many (run for my life), when epics where truly epics and legendaries "OMG so awesome but I know I will never ever get one myself".

I think Blizzard's huge mistake is trying to make the game available for non-mmorpg players, not casuals.
i want class fantasy back...many spells, rpg spells useless spells...
just look at what happend to wildstar, a game that promoted it self to be more hardcore than any other mmo, the devs there even said this is what they wanted out of wow also, yes many of the wildstar devs where former blizzard employes.

and how did it end, oh yes server shut down, becuse casual players didnt find the game fun at all, that is what would happen whit wow also.
22/10/2018 22:04Posted by Moocg
blizzard have been rewarding terrible players since the end of tbc , don't expect it to change now

But OP is saying the opposite, that Blizzard is not listening to him.
also maby the op actualy would do anykind of hardcore stuff before he starts to burst out things like that, doing only lfr doesnt realy say hardcore.
22/10/2018 21:51Posted by Zamuro
i was very casual and didnt understand most of the game during the first years of my playtime(vanilla and tbc) and i was very happy with what i had. i didnt care that i didnt have top gear and skill. WHY WOULD I WANT THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME AND BE EXTREMELY SKILLED WHEN I BARELY PLAY THE GAME AND UNDERSTAND IT??? u gotta work for it ffs. not complain on the forums that the game is very hard and unfair for u.
ppl have become so !@#$ing spoiled. they play 1-2 hours a day and want to be on the same gear and skill lvl as someone that plays 4+ a day? because of these ppl the game is in this state. do u think ppl in vanilla were crying that they arent as geared as some guy they have just seen? no, it was a motivation. and it was a damn good motivation.
the sad thing is that BLIZZARD chose to cater to these ppl. gotta make more ppl play the game, right? well, see how that turned out...


Such an inane rant tbh .

Outside of raids/mythic + what is there for casuals you to ? infact they have catered in my view the game towards elitish players those who decide who raids at what lvl and who does dungeons at what lvl so please spare me .

340 epics are not a game break so please stop saying epics are easy .
Agreed
22/10/2018 16:10Posted by Abacabb
I keep reading this fluffy language about how casual players, and I mean the low effort, tunnel zerg lfr style casuals should have a voice in this game.


If you want casuals to have no say in the direction of the game at all then persuade Blizzard to create a free to play version for casuals, because as long as we pay the sub price, just like every other player, we have the right to give feedback about the game.

22/10/2018 16:10Posted by Abacabb
I just wanna say this: no, the players who join without the intention of progressing shouldn't have a voice or any dictatorship over the direction of this game.


Sure, let only the elitist people talk, remove everything below mythic raiding difficulty just to make them feel good about themselves in a virtual reality, make everything hard to accomplish in this game. That would be a nice way to kill the game as soon as possible. Gaming changed, players changed, hardcore and heavily time consuming games are not as popular anymore as they used to be. If you add the fact that MMO-s are getting less and less popular every year to that then you should be able to see why mixing the two things would be really bad.

People wouldn't magically start investing more time to the game when they don't have time they could invest into it. We are not little kids and students anymore in our parents' house. Most of us has a family and a job and because of that, we can't just go home and be sure that "okay, now i have 3-4 hours to play". Something might happen (and usually does happen) that makes us stop playing maybe after 2 hours, maybe after 10 minutes because of family or work stuff.

If you take away all the rewards they can get without that invested time, they are going to quit. Guess what happens when the majority of the playerbase leaves the game.
Wotlk was last expansion that did great was great for casuals, then came cataclysm which made everything worse for casuals, game wen't downhill since then, you gonna kill the game if you turn your back on casuals.
22/10/2018 22:15Posted by Bloedelf
22/10/2018 16:40Posted by Zamuro
the game is in this state because they tried to please the casuals


But what is really a casual tho? I consider myself a casual because I don't like raiding and high end PvP, and I'm nowhere near a pro at anything, yet I find myself a "oldschool" player that enjoyed the old way of grinding stuff like rep with just kills, slow levelling with slow xp gain and easy to get killed by pulling 1 mob to many (run for my life), when epics where truly epics and legendaries "OMG so awesome but I know I will never ever get one myself".

I think Blizzard's huge mistake is trying to make the game available for non-mmorpg players, not casuals.
my view of a casual player is someone that plays very little, doesnt care about the game a lot and isnt good at it. for example - im a casual in path of exile. i play from time to time, make my own build and dont care if im good or not. im just doing it for fun, dont care if ill be able to clear the highest difficulty or not. the problem is when these ppl start demanding things. i cant imagine myself going on the forums and cry that i cant clear a high tier map or something because I AM a trash at the game...
but whatever, m8. im glad u like it how it was in the early expansions :). the more "hardcore" players got their classic coming so its fine. im sure there are casual players too(like u) that are sick of that hand holding rng thing with free items everywhere that wow has become and will come to classic.
This is my 2nd account, but i have played since tbc, so I have some veiws on how the game has gone. I think elitism has caused problems in this game, not casuals.

Raider i.o, link achivs, play a fotm class, must be like method level of pro gamer.
Guides and videos have taken a lot away from this game. Some people play like sheep on this game, youtubers and guides are their shepard, it's hard to have any innovation to play the game anymore.
I think elitism has impacted this game, not casuals.
The game lost all of its fundental values catering to the casuals,just look at LFR,and the " 0 effort have ur loot" system like Warfront.
Its antisocial the only effort is time,and requiers 0 skill.
And now those people keep saying they are the majority and paying castumers.They are entitled more then any elitist,witch they coined in the first place.
Honestly good luck to those casuals once they are left in the game amongst themself,will they then subb and support the game.
22/10/2018 22:42Posted by Virchus
Some people play like sheep on this game, youtubers and guides are their shepard, it's hard to have any innovation to play the game anymore.
I think elitism has impacted this game, not casuals.


You want to step up because there is nothing to do for you anymore? Try to step up, join a guild that does mythic progression and join the elitist club. Easy pull.

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