This is why Titanforging is ruining the game.

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There are simply three reason why people would ever argue titanforging is good for the game and the old system that had 12 million people playing instead of this 1.7 million.

1. They are straight up trolling. Just deal with it. Some people have way too much time on their hands and they simply enjoy going against somebody else opinion, even if it a stupid standpoint to take, just too bug someone or be annoying as it is the only thing that gives their life fulfillment.

2. They are simply incapable of understanding the implications of the system, or in any form or shape knowingly or unknowingly are addicted to gambling structured rewards systems. Likely they are suffering from gambling addiction and do many such activities even outside of WoWs gear gambling. While the majority of the people that got addicted to the game previously simply followed the code they were programmed to follow already from early school days and society as a whole, the result based mindset were we always set out to achieve certain goals, were effort results in an A and incapability and avoidance results in a F.

Gambling as a whole is a release for many people as it leaves the result up to chance and thus allows "chance" to shoulder the burden of the results, thus releasing the individual of responsibility for said result. Very unaccepted by society, for good reason, as things can not function on "chance" alone. Probability is an impotent tool we use, but things are rarely completely given up to chance. Those that fail to follow the rigors and rules of society and its structures and often fail to achieve results more often than others have a certain aptitude to leave things up to "chance" as it releases them from the pressure of society. "If I gamble enough eventually I'll win enough so i can just say !@#$ it i am rich! And i do not need to work or put in any effort no more or "please" anyone else to be successful, to achieve results." Gamblers thieve in an environment where they themselves do not need to feel remorse, regret or any responsibility towards the outcome of things.

3. The third and final reason why anyone would defend TF is the simple fact it is yet to bite them in the %^- enough for them to feel affected. The day something they are doing in the game is taken away due to TF is the moment they will realize what a bad system it is. As long as the system keeps "favoring" them or feeding in to their addiction with zero repercussions they will say "they like it". But the day they start to get benched from raids cause their ilvl is to low and the trial that just started gets to raid cause he has 5 higher ilvl only cause he TF 5 pieces of gear he got during last weeks alt-raid is the day more people gonna start to question the system.

TL:DR Everyone has their reason for still being "okey" or liking the system, but eventually the system lashes back hard enough and blow up in their face that even they will hopefully see the objective facts. In short not everyone have the intellectual properties to understand something until it is put in a clear enough context for them.
29/10/2018 08:53Posted by Lilîith
26/10/2018 16:22Posted by Doomshaper
@OP: So your game is ruined because someone else got stuff? That's sad.


yep

what is more sad is fact that they will never meet in game , they will never play toghether , they will never talk to each other via voice comms and that his gear has 0 impact on another person game.

more so . if it wasnt for this forums they would have no clue of each others existence .

and yet they are still !@#$%ing about it.

its beyond sad. its pathetic tbh.


I like your realistic point of view but at the same time you sound like an Emo person no offense.
Titanforging helps getting people towards higher tiers of content. Sure a 270 with 1 super item is not going to amount to much. But it is a start and helps overcomming the ilvl jumps needed.

So no, titanforging is not ruining the game. Some people has just more luck than others, for most its just a small bonus. You folks wastly overestimate how many titanforges people have in general. Its just plain and sheer envy, if i cant get it, then noone else should have too.
29/10/2018 13:25Posted by Kamazh
Titanforging helps getting people towards higher tiers of content. Sure a 270 with 1 super item is not going to amount to much. But it is a start and helps overcomming the ilvl jumps needed.

So no, titanforging is not ruining the game. Some people has just more luck than others, for most its just a small bonus. You folks wastly overestimate how many titanforges people have in general. Its just plain and sheer envy, if i cant get it, then noone else should have too.
Precisely this, to be honest.

I never would have raided in Legion if I needed to follow the same progression path as everyone else (I started after Nighthold was released) and I have literally thousands of boss kills across my characters - I haven't raided in BFA because it feels like a step backwards from Legion. If I had been forced to clear EN and ToV just so I can move to NH I would have given up before I even started. I guess that's the point of the system, and it works.
seeing the jealousy of some people about a virtual item is very funny indeed
26/10/2018 15:21Posted by Shortbolts

And I'm tired of people who have barely done ANYTHING to understand this.


I have pathfinder part 1. I am exalted with all the factions on the alliance side.
How is that barely done anything.

RAIDING IS NOT ALL THERE IS TO THIS GAME!!!!
In fact for MANY MANY MANY players raiding isn't important AT ALL.
For me, all that raiding is, is: Some new transmogs to collect and a storyline to complete.

TF was NOT made for raiders. It just wasn't.
It's not for you. Ignore it. Go away. Leave us alone.

26/10/2018 15:21Posted by Shortbolts

you also have only done 3 bosses on Normal, yet you are only 5 item levels behind me,


So what? That has no influence whatsoever. It really doesn't matter what my ilvl is compared to you. It SHOULDN'T matter to you (the fact that it does says more about you and your personality than anything else).

26/10/2018 15:21Posted by Shortbolts

The AMOUNT of work I've put into this game compared to you is huge, yet the ilvl difference between us is tiny.


Again; WHO CARES.
Also; I probably put more work into the game if you look at our entire WoW 'careers'.

But again... WHO CARES???!!!!
I couldn't care less what your ilvl is. Really. No f-s given. Whatsoever.

26/10/2018 15:21Posted by Shortbolts

You've barely done the content, yet you're on par with me when it comes to gear. Does that SERIOUSLY seem fair to you?


Yes. Because I HAVE done the content. RAIDING IS NOT THE CONTENT! It's one choice of a whole list of choices.
I'm offended that you say that I've barely done content, because I've done a LOT. I have over a year of playtime on my main character alone. That is not nothing. That is dedication. That takes effort. And before you bring it up; no that time was not spend AFK-ing. Afking in a town is useless and something I don't do. When I log in, I actually play.

The fact that you raid doesn't make you special. The game is the game. And people play this game in many different ways. Yours is not the one and only correct way.
29/10/2018 13:56Posted by Naurissa
I guess that's the point of the system, and it works.


It isn't, but it's a nice side effect I suppose. :)
29/10/2018 12:48Posted by Dramputation
There are simply three reason why people would ever argue titanforging is good for the game and the old system that had 12 million people playing instead of this 1.7 million.


You lost all credibility with this part alone.
1) The number of subs has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with TF.
2) That 1.7m is a made up number and you are using it as if it's fact.

29/10/2018 12:48Posted by Dramputation

1. They are straight up trolling.


Why? Because someone has an opinion you don't agree with, they're automatically trolling? You talk nonsense.

29/10/2018 12:48Posted by Dramputation

2. They are simply incapable of understanding the implications of the system


Same can be said for people asking for its removal. So yeah.

29/10/2018 12:48Posted by Dramputation

3. The third and final reason why anyone would defend TF is the simple fact it is yet to bite them in the %^- enough for them to feel affected.


No, because not everyone is like you or some of the people in this thread.
Some people don't mind if someone else gets something nice. Some people can be happy for others. Some people can accept that we all have the same chance of getting a proc.
26/10/2018 15:21Posted by Shortbolts

The AMOUNT of work I've put into this game compared to you is huge, yet the ilvl difference between us is tiny. I don't see that as an accomplishment, I see that as moronic. You've barely done the content, yet you're on par with me when it comes to gear. Does that SERIOUSLY seem fair to you?


And I killed Algalon in 2009 and Ragnaros in 2012, yet here you are being able to use the same titles as me by one shotting them in 2015. Our only difference being a date on an achievement's frame.

Just get over it already, you still retain an actual numerical advantage on average and on top of that actual hard content currently relies more on you being a consistently good and reliable player rather than ilvl.
24/10/2018 05:52Posted by Nolgush
Check out my cloak :*


How much work did it take to get all of your gear?
29/10/2018 13:25Posted by Kamazh
Titanforging helps getting people towards higher tiers of content. Sure a 270 with 1 super item is not going to amount to much. But it is a start and helps overcomming the ilvl jumps needed.

So no, titanforging is not ruining the game. Some people has just more luck than others, for most its just a small bonus. You folks wastly overestimate how many titanforges people have in general. Its just plain and sheer envy, if i cant get it, then noone else should have too.


People doing higher content cant find incentive to do that content because you can just get insane gear from wq or m0 dungs.

Its not about them getting it, no one cares if a 260 gets a 380 item, but that just kills more rewarding content for everyone else. I myself quit raiding because i can get that gear from m+. Theres no point in investing set days and hours if you can get that gear from trivial, mindless content
29/10/2018 15:37Posted by Nekra
People doing higher content cant find incentive to do that content because you can just get insane gear from wq or m0 dungs.


Yet every single player doing higher content has better gear than anyone doing wq and m0 dungs.
How do you account for that?

29/10/2018 15:37Posted by Nekra
I myself quit raiding because i can get that gear from m+.


Mythic plus was designed to be an alternative to raiding and it's not a bad thing, you obviously don't enjoy raiding so i guess blizzard decided to no longer force you into it. But at the end of the day this has nothing to do with titanforge.
24/10/2018 01:29Posted by Tokiri
There is a suspect that the lower is your ilvl the higher is the chance to get an high level titanforged. And everytime I see this I believe it's true.


I would suspect this is true as well,

I've just come back to the game, after leaving at the start of Legion, I've been playing through the Broken Shore stuff to get my class mount, that kinda thing, and as I've geared up from quite a low item lvl, I've had quite a lot of stuff Titanforge, which seems odd because I thought it was supposed to be a very low % chance?

Anyway, I'm not complaining, I kinda like the whole TF/WF thing, but then I don't raid anymore or do Mythic+, and I'm a Diablo 3 player, where it's fairly normal to grind gear for a long time just to get a very small % upgrade in gear.

I can see how it might pi$$ the raiders and Mythic+ guys off though, It's always just been about the gear for them, regardless of what they say on the forums.

WoW's been a gear game since day one, and some people just don't like it when others jump the queue , so to speak, lol
You lost all credibility with this part alone.
1) The number of subs has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with TF.
2) That 1.7m is a made up number and you are using it as if it's fact.


It was data mined by an unintended leak. So no it is not "made up" it is closer to fact than the fiction wow has 3+ million subs and thriving. The point is if WoW had 5 millions subs blizzard would gladly say so and deny this embarrassing leak. Fact is they can not unless they wanna be sued so hard for lying they be bankrupt before 2018 ends cause their subs are not at 5+ mil but less than 2.5

Why? Because someone has an opinion you don't agree with, they're automatically trolling? You talk nonsense.


Did I say everyone was trolling? Did you read properly? No probably not as it was simply one of the reason stated why anyone white knights and argues for TF being a good system for the game. Suggestion; go read some books and improve that reading comprehension, you surely need it.

Same can be said for people asking for its removal. So yeah.


I probably played this game before you even knew it existed so yes, i am fully aware of the ins and out of the game systems in place. What worked and what did not work. What made people pleased, happy and playing the game and what made them angry and leave the game. In general those asking for its removal can present a multitude of arguments for its removal, meanwhile those arguing for its continues existence can but muster but a few, most of them screaming of entitlement in a game with a monthly premium for the very reason of avoiding having any need of entitlement and cheap thrills like lower tier free to play game models has to advertise with.

Either way the overwhelming majority voicing their opinion against the system and RNG within the RNG being one of the main reason stated by people dropping their sub one is only to presume it can not be a very good and healthy system for the game. If the ones that are supposed to enjoy it, clearly reject it is hard to really tell them they are wrong, unless you wanna jump on the blizzard train and call us all "stupid" and being too incompetent to actually realize what we want to spend our money on.

In everyone best interest I believe it is better if the game is something that 5+ mil approve of and play rather than less than 3 mil people, regardless of what a minority of players thinks, at the end of they day the majority has to rule, especially since we can all agree hard cold cash is all blizzard ever care about so.

29/10/2018 14:26Posted by Tahra
No, because not everyone is like you or some of the people in this thread.
Some people don't mind if someone else gets something nice. Some people can be happy for others. Some people can accept that we all have the same chance of getting a proc.


Yes people are pleased with the odds being perfectly balanced in everyone's favor until those odds in one way or another comes back a bites you in the !@#. I am perfectly fine seeing my raids power grow as we progress and distribute the gear equally among our players. Thing is that is no longer a guild decision, and it is also a hard cold fact that if someone subsequently grows in gear faster than you and thus produce higher numbers than you due to stats alone and not through actual merits you are more likely to get benched when the boss requires higher numbers. This only due to a system that is completely out of your control. Gear matters in this game and at equal gear you might crush said person, but with 5-10 ilvl difference it is hard to make up such a gap and that gap is no longer up to you and the guild as a whole.

In a player controlled environment every player deemed vital to the raids progression can be geared and awarded loot for their participation and the further advancement of the guild while with TF and this complete random system your bench warmers coming in for occasional bosses or only participating in one out 3 raids a week filling that missing spot for the evening can all of sudden become your most vital player due to the systems restrictions. This will than shot the whole raid in the foot as the now most powerful dps in the guild, that again the system chose by chance, is now a bench raider that shows up 1/3 times a week. Great design. The pinnacle of MMO entertainment - long live character progression.
Photoshop? yeah probably.... :D
24/10/2018 07:26Posted by Uvireath
24/10/2018 01:24Posted by Marinkonk
Guy went in mythic 0 as a 260 ilvl and got this.How is this even possible?Whats the point of hardcore raiding if you can get 380 gear from m0 dungeons.

I always thought Hardcore Raiders Raid Hardcore because of the Fun and the Challenge........

I guess its like Americans invading Iraq to bring people peace, not for the Oil.


Nobady plays wow for challenge. Anyone who plays for challenge so do in other games like League of Legends or CS:GO where you are actualy exlcusively rewarded for challeging content.
29/10/2018 08:42Posted by Lilîith
26/10/2018 17:34Posted by Tïndra
...

Totally agree!
My experience is this, gotten about 120+ epics since the launch of bfa, every warforge ive gotten is an extra attribute (+speed) mostly. Still waiting for my first titanforge. My gf got 3 titanforge from wq on the same day, a rogue with 320 ilvl got a 390 titanforge ring in LFR....LFR cmon. 40 ilvl upgrade.
The rng seems alot like fixed rng. Maybe they dont reward people who do the mechanics right in raids /mythics etc since im still waiting for my first. #sadplayer


what you are looking here is "confirmation bias" - you have seen 1 accident and you base your theory on it. when reality is TF is extremly rare in game in BfA.

i have atm 9 max level alts and have yet to see any gear higher then 355 with really good TF. i had like 2 TF of +/-25 level but it was mostly low level stuff like 320 trinket tF to 345. i did have multiple WF pieces but TF seems really really rare


No it isnt rare it happens a lot. And no matter what it should not happen at all. You dont deserver any high itemlvl gear for effortless content. Not a single one.
why do you care what gear other people get?
just entitled special snowflakes.

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