This is why Titanforging is ruining the game.

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30/10/2018 12:48Posted by Lilîith
and argument about BiS is flawed from get go since blizzard do not want you to chase BiS.


But the majority of players seemingly do, as anything besides that is but a pointless infinity grind to no particular end, which is the current state of WoW and the state so many people are against as they never sought after it to be part of WoW. Why would I do a raid again after clearing it for the first time on mythic? There is nothing but a statistically impossible grind towards BiS in there. While before it was a quite predictable route with favorable odds, were every piece towards that goal ment an instantaneous rush of fulfillment until you finally got the last piece and simply felt glorious about yourself.
30/10/2018 11:49Posted by Tahra
30/10/2018 08:05Posted by Verdill
Tahra, you're right about one thing, Blizzard reacts when majority is unhappy with specific feature - they fix it, BUT if they don't care about minorities the small chunks of playerbase begin to quit the game.


Yes, but it's better that small chunks quit rather than huge parts of the playerbase, is it not?

Do you really think there is no perfect solution for this problem? :) Cap titanforge at heroic/mythic raid level and both sides are satisfied since ~30 ilvls titanforges are still something nice and at the same time BiS items are kept within game (add possibility to add socket to the item and we're home). Everyone literally wins.

Just for some reason Blizzard doesn't see obvious solutions but I'm not surprised anymore.
Theres completely no need to cap titanforging, its a truly microscopic chance to reach such highs that it can compete with mythic loot. People are deserving of once in a blue moon to win the lottery.
There should be a cap for titanforging and warforging, just like in WoD. Have an xy chance to get warforging: +10% ilvl (The higher ilvl the base item has, the more ilvl it gets by forging) + extra chance for socket/and secondary stats like avoidance, leech, speed, etc.

That system was all right imo.

And yes, in my oppinion gearing up should not rely on RNG, no, i'm not jelous, but this kills the feel of progression. And peeps could say, that : Omg, it's just one item, you can't gear your char up entirely on RNG. Yes, but it still kills the reason to do higher diff content for higher rewards in some cases.

Let's say, you have a BiS item that can drop from a certain dungeon. Like a 2H wep from Motherlode. You go there as a freshly dinged 120 player, who has never done any dungeons, and gets a 395 socketed wep. And just cuz of that RNG, you will never have to touch Motherlode again, because you've got the item you needed from that dung. Higher difficulty content should ALWAYS reward higher ilvl/stat gear, even if RNG is included.

At least, this is my oppinion :3
the chance for such a high cap is extremely low for a fresh 120 with questing gear. like rolling 1 on a d100.

Whereas a high geared raider needs a much smaller amount of titanforging to cap out, that its quite realistic to get all your pieces TFed.

You folks are QQing so hard about absolutely -nothing-
30/10/2018 13:36Posted by Kamazh
the chance for such a high cap is extremely low for a fresh 120 with questing gear. like rolling 1 on a d100.

Whereas a high geared raider needs a much smaller amount of titanforging to cap out, that its quite realistic to get all your pieces TFed.

You folks are QQing so hard about absolutely -nothing-


You just summed up everything that is wrong with the system :P a freshly dinged player, should not be allowed to have a chance to get gear equivalent to a hardcore raider/pvp-er (even if the chances are low). Higher difficulty content = Higher gear, this is how it should work.

RNG should not be part of the game when you are gearing up. The game should not be a lottery.

Just simply give a cap for titanforging/warforging.
But why capping titanforge at high level (370/380/385) is so problematic to you? You say +30 titanforges are so rare it wouldn't affect you so much since your kind of content gives ~340 ilvl. So what's the problem now?
30/10/2018 13:46Posted by Verdill
But why capping titanforge at high level (370/380/385) is so problematic to you? You say +30 titanforges are so rare it wouldn't affect you so much since your kind of content gives ~340 ilvl. So what's the problem now?


I'd cap the titanforging at ALL levels, make it give +10% ilvl to the base ilvl of the gear.
I've written down why it's a ,,problem''. Being lucky should not be part of the game. The game should reward higher difficulty content with better gear. The fact that lower difficulty content even has a chance to provide as better gear as high difficulty content makes no sense, it kills the progression. How can you not understand the problem in that? By being lucky you can CUT content.
30/10/2018 12:59Posted by Dramputation
The poster of that info was told by a Blizzard rep that the info was false.
That's enough for me. You might need to remove that tinfoil hat mate.


So whenever someone in charge tells you something you listen and agree with it regards of what is said? Great. Does not remind at all of a certain country in the 1930s... Critical thinking was it and proper analysis. Mega-Corporates ethics and daily business practice might also be something to look in to.

I was going over your different 'reasons' and this was just the first one you mentioned, which seems weird because I seriously doubt more than maybe 2% of all people in favor of TF are actually trolling about it.


So less than 2% in favor of TF that are being vocal about it on the internet are trolls? "sure".

I can read very well btw, thanks.


You are only proving otherwise with every post.

I kind of doubt that since I was actually in the beta all those years ago, but kudos for trying to seem knowledgeable.


WoD beta?

- I'm petty and jealous of other players
- I don't want other people to get what I get because I'm BETTER!!!
- I set unrealistic goals and I want my things NAO!
- RNG RNG RNG

That's pretty much it. Those reasons, different wording. Over and over.


1. E-peen and progression goes hand in hand and is the corner stone of of any MMO. Not everyone can own and drive a Ferrari same goes for wearing the best equipment in MMO games, especially in WoW as everyone was not able to over come the most difficult and time consuming tasks in the game. And people liked it that way. Otherwise more people would simply be playing. The product is theoretically unlimited, but no one is interested.

2. But that is more the argument of those in favor of TF, actually the first point is more or so as well. People expect random luck to be the basis of what they deserve in this game, and be it so it rewards them with the best item in the game - it was "deserved". Things should not be earned, but rewards for logging on to the game and participating in 30 minutes of the lowest tier of content. In a consumer society were basic human psychology dictates we always want to earn and own things others do not such a bland mechanic is nothing but short of disastrous, as seen by the wasteland wow again is slowly becoming.

Everyone could reach the best rewards in the game before, if they just gave it enough time and effort. Those that put their heart and drive in to it would get to the end quicker than others. Some people are just better at video games than others and subsequently more deserving of unlocking the most sough after rewards locked behind the most difficult challenges.

3. Yes RNG! RNG is boring, it is random, it is tiring, and surprise the majority of us are healthy fully functional individuals in modern society and not desperate gambling addicts looking for the next quick fix. Drop RNG was more than enough time gating for rewards after overcoming a certain tier of challange, further RNG on top of that.. well here we are, lots of hate, frustration and disappointment with the game.

Again with the egocentric thing. How about being happy for a complete stranger? What's actually wrong with that?
And the fact that it's no longer a guild decision as you say, is not TF's fault.
That's down to Blizzard's PL decision, which is something else entirely.


How is it egocentric to wish loot upon my raids members so we can grow stronger together and reward the players that deserve it with appropriate loot? Do you even know the implications and the annoyance over getting duplicate loot but with higher item lvl? Always having to be the devils advocate when distributing gear, or again leave it up to chance and roll for it. Like it or not people emotions are always involved and when something is gonna become "unavailable" as certain TF items are as they simply roll so well. I'll rather have my raiders say "its fine you can take it this week, it is a good upgrade for you!" rather than "oh it is never ever gonna drop again and I know its a 5% upgrade for you but its a 1% upgrade for me and yea its not gonna drop again so..."

TF is a big part of that problem and PL may be a different entity but it certainty goes hand in hand with this current loot system and itemization. All i know is when the raiders are happy the game is thriving. Less loot drama=happier raiders. Happy pvp players never hurt either. Like it or not these two are the two core groups and cornerstones of the WoW community, everything in between are ultimately side orders that either server and funnel in to these two activities or simply just exists in their own little bubble.

Not if you play with actual decent human beings.


Decent human beings are actually the ones not letting the other people in the raid suffer and feel like they are smashing their heads against something unbeatable just because they do not wanna make a good decision. Most people raiding are adult enough to understand results, and more often than not orientated in that direction and in my experience as such most people are very civil about it. TF and the loot drama that it ensures causes way more issues in my experience. Fixed ilvl is in everyone best interest as it ensures that no matter what type of individuals are in the raid at the end of the day people are happy.

29/10/2018 23:27Posted by Tahra
I just want to comment on this, because... Player controlled environment is causing those last few problems you're mentioning. Players who only care about numbers. Players who, despite knowing they don't NEED tf, will still demand it from people. Players who, when given an inch, will take a mile and ask, no demand, more. Players that only care about themselves and will walk over others whenever given the chance. Players when given any power are corrupted almost instantly and will abuse it whenever and however they can.

Yeah, player controlled environment. No thanks.


Its just hilarious thou when looking at the hundreds of changes blizzard made to this game in the last 3 expansions and to loot especially, the toxicity has only escalated. You can not blame that on the generation shift alone, especially since the majority playing the game are still born in the 90s and downwards. More things are left to RNG now --->less player control than before. That is probably one of the biggest changes. Especially with all the match making going on in the game. Before if you wanted to have a chance at the best rewards you had to join a guild, raid and act accordingly. Now just join LFR, be toxic all you want and hope for TF. Better yet run some M+ dungeons, leave any moment you like, you do not even have to do difficult keyies even with good players, just do low ones and hope for TF.


yeah we get it ,you love talking, there probably isn't anything of substance in that pile.

the vociferous cabbage , even critical hits the intelligent reader with "

1. E-peen and progression goes hand in hand and is the corner stone of of any MMO."

right off the bat, yeah but no thanks, the cabbage is a high functioning npc arguing for what he wants to believe is true ,because he believes it to be true.

he has no space for discerning actual truth.
30/10/2018 13:46Posted by Verdill
But why capping titanforge at high level (370/380/385) is so problematic to you? You say +30 titanforges are so rare it wouldn't affect you so much since your kind of content gives ~340 ilvl. So what's the problem now?


I'd be totally fine with a +30 (+25 even) ilvl cap.

However, be honest now... there would STILL be the same people that post in these kinds of threads, complaining that 'those noobs shouldn't be able to get that gear blabla' nonsense. They will not be happy until TF is gone completely. They are selfish, they are narrowminded and they are what's wrong with the playerbase. They just don't see that because of the reasons I just listed.
30/10/2018 14:14Posted by Tahra
30/10/2018 13:46Posted by Verdill
But why capping titanforge at high level (370/380/385) is so problematic to you? You say +30 titanforges are so rare it wouldn't affect you so much since your kind of content gives ~340 ilvl. So what's the problem now?


I'd be totally fine with a +30 (+25 even) ilvl cap.

However, be honest now... there would STILL be the same people that post in these kinds of threads, complaining that 'those noobs shouldn't be able to get that gear blabla' nonsense. They will not be happy until TF is gone completely. They are selfish, they are narrowminded and they are what's wrong with the playerbase. They just don't see that because of the reasons I just listed.

Finally something we both agree ^^
24/10/2018 02:28Posted by Kamazh
So much envy and entitlement here. How does it hurt you that someone got lucky? Not at all. He will most certainly never see a super titanforge again


There have been dozens of threads about this with dozens of people writing hundreds of paragraphs explaining that. I was about to sigh and write several of these paragraphs again, but I remembered Mike from Preach Gaming, just yesterday, did a video on the state of M+ that also explains why overinflated gear rewards are bad. Of course, this is a larger problem than just some RNG titanforges, but the titanforging system is part of this larger issue. If you legit don`t understand why having the community getting showered with overinflated loot is bad, give it a listen. It`s short, explains exactly what the problem is and you can listen to it while doing chores or whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIYgSt73U50
30/10/2018 14:29Posted by Leìsha
24/10/2018 02:28Posted by Kamazh
So much envy and entitlement here. How does it hurt you that someone got lucky? Not at all. He will most certainly never see a super titanforge again


There have been dozens of threads about this with dozens of people writing hundreds of paragraphs explaining that. I was about to sigh and write several of these paragraphs again, but I remembered Mike from Preach Gaming, just yesterday, did a video on the state of M+ that also explains why overinflated gear rewards are bad. Of course, this is a larger problem than just some RNG titanforges, but the titanforging system is part of this larger issue. If you legit don`t understand why having the community getting showered with overinflated loot is bad, give it a listen. It`s short, explains exactly what the problem is and you can listen to it while doing chores or whatever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIYgSt73U50


Because it suits their agenda better to say we are all bitter and our arguments are invalid even though many of us don't give a rat's !@#$ about newly dinged or lfr participants getting a huge TF.

My gear progression is borked. We are forced into M+ to gear for raids. It's a never ending RNGfest. They've destroyed BiS and these days you can't even tell if an item is an upgrade without simming. Ilvl means nothing.

It's so disappointing to go to a boss and you get baseline drop. The only RNG should be whether or not the boss gives you loot. Not this endless RNG upon RNG upon RNG. TF has just skewed everything.
30/10/2018 14:04Posted by Worldsbest
yeah we get it ,you love talking, there probably isn't anything of substance in that pile.


Cause non substantial witty one liners provide so much substance and valuable information to any discussion.

You love the game. We get it. Keep being subbed. I will never agonize you for that. I still believe the game is !@#$ in its current state and will continue to be if it remains this way. My sub runs out in 8 days anyways, so I'll talk just as much as i feel like until than.
If we are a minority it is probably because all the people that hate WF/TF have left already why do you think there is not even half as many players left then there used to be?

The only ones left are the die hards and people who like the current system.
I am 370 and ive never set foot in a mythic+, only doing raiding.

Good riddance then, the less toxic players the better.

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