Scamming as Transmute Master - allowed!

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I just had an issue like that.

I was clearly looking for TRANSMUTE MASTER, and I agreed on 13 TRANSMUTATIONS. However, some game master, named Xyresyk, told me smth like " Hey, u didnt say u want to get procs before trade, so u will not get em!". Why the hell would I be looking for a TRANSMUTE MASTER if I wouldnt want the [argh] procs???!!! This is just [non-understandable] way of Blizzard thinking.

I do understand when a player asks for a tranmute from alchemist, alchemist procs, and then player wants to get the procs. But when a player is looking for a transmute master ITS OBVIOUS he wants to get as much as possible from his mats, he knows about the procs that will come from transmute master, and he wants to get the procs. However Blizzard do not understand it, or consider it still as a BONUS. It does not matter I was looking for spec that procs.

Just n/c on this, Ill let that noob that scammed me eat all those gems, and I hope they will stop in his throut. I got rlly mad about this, one of the most stupid, unexplained policy from Blizzard that is NOT stated anywhere. So, transmute MASTERS! Feel free to scam as much as u want, u got approval from Blizzard on this one, hurrah!!!!!! I just lost 18 inferno rubies. Yey.
Just make it perfectly clear next time. Personally, I have items already transmuted, and trade them that item for the mats. It stops any confusion. Any proc I get I also keep to myself.
22/03/2011 12:46 AMPosted by Feedmegnomes
I have items already transmuted, and trade them that item for the mats.


The best way to do it since classic. At least when getting transmutes done by strangers.
Best for customers (trust no one!) and Transmuters get their share.
Should have told him you wanted the extras beforehand, then you could have gotten him on scamming (or he could refuse to do the transmutes for you or charge a higher fee).
Looking at it from the transmute master point of view, people often ask them so they will either don't have to pay a fee for the transmute (due to the transmuter having a chance to keep something themselves if it procs) or get it done for a reduced fee (same argument, lower fee due to opportunity benefit in the form of procs for the transmuter).

Without specifically stating you want both the transmutation of your materials as well as the possible procs, the transmuter is fully in his right to keep the procs.

Bah, you got what you had mats for... yes procs are bonus, so there was no scam really, if you didnt make the agreement about procs before trade.
I never sell my procs. What kind of retard would do that? Someone pays you measly 100g for transmutation you proc 5 truegold ... Nope.
This falls in to the category of "decide loot rules in chat before raid".

If you want the procs, you'll need to state it before hand. Just look at it this way, atleast you'll do it right next time and this thread helped many others to do the same.
OMG, why the hell would I want some guy get more gems from me for free? If I wouldnt want to get the procs i would !NOT! be looking for transmute master. This is simple, for what on earth would I want to flood the market with more gems this way, make competition for myself? I make 13 gems, he get 5 ticks - i will have to sell them cheaper then when i would be the only one selling only mine 13 gems. If I wouldnt want to get the ticks, it would be better for me not to look for transmute master, wouldnt it!?

I would have to be an idiot to make others get more from me, for nothing.

If I wanted to just transmute those, I would be looking for ALCHEMIST, not for TRANSMUTE MASTER, would I?

And please stop that bull crap - ask for procs before trade. When I look for TRANSMUTE MASTER its obvious he will get ticks, and I do pay for 13x TRANSMUTATIONS, not for 13 x gems.

And becouse of that it SHOULD be consider as scam!
22/03/2011 12:46 AMPosted by Feedmegnomes
Just make it perfectly clear next time. Personally, I have items already transmuted, and trade them that item for the mats. It stops any confusion. Any proc I get I also keep to myself.

This is diffrent, becouse the way you do it prevents from missunderstanding. The guy I traded with, knew i was looking for transmute master, but what he did is asked AFTER transmutations if I want to buy procs. I was NOT looking for alchemist, cuz I got like 3-4 of them in my guild[potion masters all], including RL friend.

This is a scam - cuz i LOST, my items will be cheaper cuz of that fact. I spent a lot of time looking for a transmute masters, and I did pay them always per transmute. Never had a problem like this before - its just stupid Blizzard do not see its a clear scam.

Dont you understand the fact its better for me to transmute like this with non-transmute master? For what on earth would I be looking for master otherwise? To decrease the price of gems on AH? think!
Good luck looking. No transmuter in their right mind will give away their transmute procs for free.

If someone asked me for transmute CD, then I would fee him 200g plus 50% of the every proc value.

If it was for the gems, I still would fee for the procs, tho prolly half their value.

Tho I would make it clear beforehand.

There are no unwritten rules. If you want to gain from someone else's perks you need to make it clear and ask for his terms to do so. If you don't do that then then keeping the procs is not a scam.
And another thing I do not understand - why is this my fault? If he told me he was going to keep them I would NOT trade with him. Why do I have to be the one talking precisly about procs, even when I am looking for alchemy spec that procs?
Good luck looking. No transmuter in their right mind will give away their transmute procs for free.

If someone asked me for transmute CD, then I would fee him 200g plus 50% of the every proc value.

If it was for the gems, I still would fee for the procs, tho prolly half their value.

Tho I would make it clear beforehand.

There are no unwritten rules. If you want to gain from someone else's perks you need to make it clear and ask for his terms to do so. If you don't do that then then keeping the procs is not a scam.

Why you dont ask if you can keep them? Its my mats, and I pay you to transmute those into something else. And I do know you are a transmute master.

And ofc, there are diffrent agreements. Usually I agree on 5 per transmute, 15 gold for proc - some accept that, not everyone ofc. This guy agreed on 5 gold per transmute. and than scammed me, taking what I have paid for[transmutes, not gems!].
A mistake made is a lesson learned.

Make a macro for the next time which says exactly everything that needs to be said to cover your ass.
22/03/2011 10:26 AMPosted by Bakuga
This is a scam - cuz i LOST, my items will be cheaper cuz of that fact. I spent a lot of time looking for a transmute masters, and I did pay them always per transmute. Never had a problem like this before - its just stupid Blizzard do not see its a clear scam.


cuz?

Anyhow, the problem really is that it's your decision to trust your materials to another person, with no ... how is it called in english, when you had something over for security?

Anyhow, another way to think of it is that in a "secure" trade, when you hand the materials to the other person he trades you their AH-cost in cash in the same window. Then he makes the stuff, and trades you back the results, while you trade his security + the payment. That way, if he runs away with the materials he lost no cash, and if you try to skim on the payment he can sell the stuff elsewhere.

Instead the way you - and we all - usually trade is fully-trusting. I wouldn't do that with strangers though, I only "hire" people from guilds I know well, and who's GMs our GM is on good terms with. Means I know if they *%%% up at the very least they need a new guild.
22/03/2011 10:39 AMPosted by Bakuga
And another thing I do not understand - why is this my fault? If he told me he was going to keep them I would NOT trade with him. Why do I have to be the one talking precisly about procs, even when I am looking for alchemy spec that procs?

Becuase it's you who care for them... Making things clear is in your interest - not his really. If you make things clear, the crafter agrees for the terms and then doesn't keep up to the agreement you can screenshot your agreement and the outcome and report him for scam.

If no clear agreement was made you have no proof for scam therefor you cannot report it.

Looking for a transmute master does not mean you can take the proc. If things are not made clear it's up to the crafter what he does with the procs.
5g per transmute. Not at all suprised he kept the procs, complete waste of time.

22/03/2011 11:32 AMPosted by Aluith
5g per transmute. Not at all suprised he kept the procs, complete waste of time.


Oh really? 40 transmutes, 200 gold in 200 sec is a waste of time? Good luck with thinking this way :x.




Looking for a transmute master does not mean you can take the proc. If things are not made clear it's up to the crafter what he does with the procs.

It does not? So what does it mean in ur opinion, when i am looking for a transmute master?
22/03/2011 11:08 AMPosted by Carrigan
This is a scam - cuz i LOST, my items will be cheaper cuz of that fact. I spent a lot of time looking for a transmute masters, and I did pay them always per transmute. Never had a problem like this before - its just stupid Blizzard do not see its a clear scam.


cuz?

Anyhow, the problem really is that it's your decision to trust your materials to another person, with no ... how is it called in english, when you had something over for security?

Anyhow, another way to think of it is that in a "secure" trade, when you hand the materials to the other person he trades you their AH-cost in cash in the same window. Then he makes the stuff, and trades you back the results, while you trade his security + the payment. That way, if he runs away with the materials he lost no cash, and if you try to skim on the payment he can sell the stuff elsewhere.

Instead the way you - and we all - usually trade is fully-trusting. I wouldn't do that with strangers though, I only "hire" people from guilds I know well, and who's GMs our GM is on good terms with. Means I know if they *%%% up at the very least they need a new guild.

Well, yeah, we are fully trusting becouse trade system implemented does not provided enaugh security for those matters - like crafting things for example.

what about prospecting then, where there are also "procs" for blue things. Can I keep them too if the other person will not say he needs them also before trade? Or can I keep the green things? Or can I give him only yellow green gems, cuz he didnt say that before trade?NO, and I would not, cuz as I am an opposite to scammers, like some ppl here try to say they are doing the right thing.
22/03/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Bakuga
It does not? So what does it mean in ur opinion, when i am looking for a transmute master?


It is custom in many guilds to let the Transmutation Masters do your X transmutes, even if you - actually - only need X of the reagent, having them keep the rest. The thing is, you waste items (in total) if you don't let a Transmutation Master do it, since the others can't get the proc in the first place.

Same way you let a Potion Master make potions or an Elixir Master do the flasks/potions. Not necessary to get the procs, but to make sure they get to use their special. Better to improve everyone and stuff.

Still, I understand your issue. But you have to keep the GM side in mind, you risked stuff by trusting someone you don't know, you got burned, it's a social issue not a game one.

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