Reasons for the rot

General
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Only a blind fool wearing rose tinted glasses can fail to see that WoW is in a state of disarray right now. People are either cancelling their subs, or not logging on, left, right and centre. I've seen guilds with well over 200 members struggling every time to find 10 for a raid, never mind 25.

So what went wrong ?

Taking PvP first (as it is the easiest). Blizzard's failure to introduce a system where the player needs to do some kind of action to prove they aren't botting isn't adding any new players, it is in fact taking them away (those whose sole interest in WoW is PvP) because they are pi**ed off.

Class balance: As usual, classes who were way underpowered comparitively speaking at 85, had to wait ages for a "fix", and some are still way below par even now after almost 6 months. For some classes, PvP just isn't viable at all.
And as usual, some classes are way OP in situations that it leaves the opposing player thinking "***** it, why do I bother).

The rated BG's themselves have fallen flat on their face, mainly due to the lack of people logging in and also because unless you are in a PvP guild, they are more or less inaccessible. (Would have been far better to introduce a system similar to gear i lv, where the game scans your resilience and if it is over a certain level, lets you queue up solo for a rated game).
Thus, trying to find 15 was a nightmare, so it was shifted to just 10, that's still a nightmare so it's shifted to same faction too.
This shows just how far the problem of "leavers/non loggers" has reached. Same faction normal BG's can't be far behind. Such desperate measures were unthinkable before Cata. (How soon before horde and alliance are actually in the same teams ?).

PvE: The length, abuse in, and the severity of the dungeons, led many to cancel/stop logging. Desperate measures such as the LotD buff were too late, as those people have gone now.
The even more desperate measure of throwing pets/mounts/gold/flasks at a tank is also too late. The casual gamer got poed waiting half an hour and longer for a dungeon and thus cancelling their sub, a long time ago. Implememnting the measure now will also make others leave (like myself) simply for the unfairness of it all. (Instant queues and a nice goodie bag on top, lmao). And before people say that it can be sent to an alt, casual gamers, by definition, haven't got time to roll, play etc 8, 9, 10 chars, they usually have just the 1. End result, (probably) more leavers than re-joiners.

Guilds: The implementation of the new guild lv system, all but killed off small/medium guilds. A good percentage of the people in them will have felt so downherted that they can't do content anymore and play with their "friends", that they will have cancelled/stopped logging. too.
In trying to force people into bigger and bigger guilds, the only result is more leavers/non loggers, than joiners.

Cata: Oh Cata, what hath thee done oh Cata ?
SO little content, it is almost against the trade description act to even call it an xpac.
2/3 of it's BG's are straight rip offs with a 2nd skin.
4.1 brings 2 more rehashes of old content.
4.2 brings a rehashed boss.
Questing so simple and linear it is downright boring and frankly an insult to anyone over the age of 5.

Cata, and the changes implemented in it, have sent this game over the hill, both for the newcomers, and the old timers. Blizz's desperate measures aren't likely to halt that, and could in all probability, even increase the slide.
i dont think like you
12/04/2011 06:32Posted by Steadyhands
Only a blind fool wearing rose tinted glasses can fail to see that WoW is in a state of disarray right now. People are either cancelling their subs, or not logging on, left, right and centre.

Where is the proof for this ridicilous statement?
Not "Guilds are falling apart everywhere" The statistics.

Where is there ANY definitive proff that WoW is on its way down?
In some ways I prefer the games community as it is now in Cata, certainly the quality of pugs has increased dramaticaly of late compared to when Cata launched. I guess this is down to several things:

1) The really bad players have simply stoped playing.
2) The more hardcore players have moved on to a more challenging game.
3) The old style 'mmoRPG' players have moved on to a more immersive game.
4) Players are starting to outgear the heroic dungeons and starter raids.

This ofcourse leaves the vast majority of normal, competent and casual players to enjoy the game. So in short Cata has weaded out the less desirable apsects of the games community.
Wow isn't what it once was, its simply obvious. Yet blizzard still try and sell wow like as if it were.
12/04/2011 06:43Posted by Simpade
Only a blind fool wearing rose tinted glasses can fail to see that WoW is in a state of disarray right now. People are either cancelling their subs, or not logging on, left, right and centre.

Where is the proof for this ridicilous statement?
Not "Guilds are falling apart everywhere" The statistics.

Where is there ANY definitive proff that WoW is on its way down?


Statistics have been posted elsewhere in other threads. But you don't need statistics you only need eyes. Just log on at peak times and see how few people are in SW/Og. And it's not because they are elsewhere, because outside of SW/Og the world is completely dead.

Or alternatively, just look in your own guild roster to see how comparitively few people have logged on even within the last week, never mind the last day.

And tbh, Blizz wouldn't have introduced, nerf this, nerf that, LotD, same faction rated BG's, stuff this and that in a tank's face, etc, etc, if the game was hunky dory and healthy from a player logging on point of view. (btw how soon before tanks and healers start getting goodie bags for joining a pugged raid ? also won't be far behind imo)
But unfortunately, all the above measures are like trying to pick up spilt milk. Once the genie has left the bottle, he ain't going to go back in.
Its being aware of the fact really, if wow was running smoothy as intended and it was all hunky dory like you say, why would they need to impliment such things so early on, to keep people playing maybe? Cause if thats all they can do I'm just becoming more and more convinced each day they lost the thread.. well.. they already did that at the end of wrath, but thats besides the point, I thought they would have picked it up in cata.

I like the new guild system but apart from that I pretty much agree. I cancelled my sub last night and can't see myself renewing it. Pvp is a joke right now and is only going to get worse in my opinion so there is no reason for me to stay seeing as that's all do.
In some ways I prefer the games community as it is now in Cata, certainly the quality of pugs has increased dramaticaly of late compared to when Cata launched. I guess this is down to several things:

1) The really bad players have simply stoped playing.
2) The more hardcore players have moved on to a more challenging game.
3) The old style 'mmoRPG' players have moved on to a more immersive game.
4) Players are starting to outgear the heroic dungeons and starter raids.

This ofcourse leaves the vast majority of normal, competent and casual players to enjoy the game. So in short Cata has weaded out the less desirable apsects of the games community.


Which in a few words means: "Casual, hardcore, and old time players have all left, so (more or less) the only people playing WoW now are newcomers with a bit more time on their hands than the average casual".

But whatever way it is looked at, it is still a (quite) serious decline in the player base from before Cata release. Instead of bringing out a polished, well tested product whose recommendations were acted upon, we got a large (very rushed) and half baked patch (not xpac) whose greatest success has been to drive players away.
The 'record sales figues' for Cata, are a FRACTION of what Blizz claim the playerbase to actually be. In which case, it is obvious that the MAJORITY of WoW subscriptions are now in China (where Cata isn't available) because the playerbase in Europe and the USA shrinks daily.
I really don't see the problem, although I have never been there during the 'better' times. I like the game like it is right now, much more than during wotlk. LFG society might be rude, but who cares? Ally loses a lot of PvP, bummer. Live with it
I disagree entirely with everything said, played since early tbc, loved that, hated wotlk too easy and boring, and love cata as much, maybe even more than tbc.

I also know many people who continue to play consistantly and enjoy the game.

I also know many guilds that continue to thrive in the game right now.

I also know that the op is proposing opinion and shoddy statistics as fact.

I also know that this thread is a complete shambles and i dont really care past this effort to continue discourse, call me a fanboy or rose tinted glasses or whatever you want, insulting me in your opening post because i dont agree with your rediculous close minded selfish opinion just sealed the ludicrosity of this thread before it even started, and admitting that statistics have been posted in other threads, which you could have contributed to instead of making your own special snowflake thread just proves how self obsessed the op is with their own opinion.

I know my opinion is MY opinion and dont try and state it as fact, its subjective experience which doesnt agree with the op, the op however has mistaken his, and others, opinion as fact in a thread that doesnt need to exist.
Another WoW is dying thread, with no evidence to support claims.

Here I'll try: WoW isn't dying.

See arugement countered.
Another WoW is dying thread, with no evidence to support claims.

Here I'll try: WoW isn't dying.

See arugement countered.

Read it again, it's his own opinion on what state wow is in right now compared to the past. How it went down in quality.

Or at least that's what i believe \o/
Evidence for WoW is dying:-

The prevalence of these threads.

See, before Cata, we had 'X will kill WoW' threads. We occasionally had leaver threads saying that the game sucked, but not all that often.

Compare to now - we have very, very frequent threads. Some of them are trying to be melodramatic,n but not all of them by a long shot. Why should this be important? Simple - it presents a simple pair of options. Either all of these threads are being posted bya limited group of people intelligent enough to vary their stylistic approach.....OR they are being written by a large group of people who see something wrong.

It's quite interesting - the counters are always very 'Ivory tower' - 'I don't see this, my guild still does fine'. Great. I'm glad for you. It doesn't counter a general statement. Neither does 'Bring statistical proof' - because thats impossible for anyone outside of Blizzard to get accurately.

So we must infer.

Firstly, we must determine if there could possibly be valid reason for WoW to be losing players. If there isn't, then either the complaint is simple whining, or the playerbase is just bored and nothing can be done.

So - with Cataclysm, is there such reason?

I feel that yes, there is. Content evokes mixed feelings certainly, but what is quite strongly felt is that the high price tag for what seems like a handful of zones (since we all got the old world anyway, and I suspect a fair number don't care) was excessive. The expansion feels like a rip off.

Is this in itself a killer? Of course not. I've paid nearly a thousand pounds personally to blizzard, what's a £30 pound expansion?

So is there anything else - Well, unfortunatly, yes. The balance issues of the game as it stands are atrocious. By this, I do not mean complaining about foTM classes, I mean the patches. Every patch, classes get fundementally messed around with - only for a lot of that to be reverted later. It feels like we are paying to play beta. It feels like there's no thought going into it.

And again, that's not the worst of it - We know for an absolute fact (because Blizzard said it during Blizzcon) that the expansion was not finished, was not ready for release. To a certain extent, this is unfortunatly normal for computer games now - the 'we can patch it later' mentality - but it is not something that endears companies to their customers.

In the case of Cata, it's not even like the christmas sales meant anything. The established playerbase would buy Cata whenever it came out - and new players would simply buy the original, not Cataclysm.

So - What 'valid reason' for player decline would this leave us with? An expansion that was rushed, feels limited, has fundementals of the game altered each patch, and comes across as overpriced. Seems valid enough. While some of that is subjective, it's fairly common - and some of it is simple fact.


So - given there's a valid reason, we can see the situation in game and make judgements. I'm inclined to agree that there are significantly fewer people online than there should be. I'm aware my opinions might be somewhat limited, because I've been far too bored of WoW to play it much recently.

What I think the problem is with recognising it is that people are still percieving it through the same filters they had for the end of Wrath - wherein most people logged in to do their daily heroic and that was it. This created the feeling of a dead world. So..sure, if you compare THAT with now, the world is more active. However, that's not the valid comparison. You cannot compare the end of an expansion with the beginning of one.

Cataclysm already feels as empty as the end of Wrath. If that isn't cause for concern - I do not know what is.

(Oh, and for the 'stats' crowd - You are asking for proof of a negative. 'There are less players' isn't actually a postive claim. It's also a claim likely to be biased by media reports. Blizzard is unlikely to say after a majorly publised expansion release that they've lost 4 million players, or whatever. You need to prove that their are significant numbers of players outside of your personal guilds, and i don't think that's doable.)
Another WoW is dying thread, with no evidence to support claims.

Here I'll try: WoW isn't dying.

See arugement countered.

Read it again, it's his own opinion on what state wow is in right now compared to the past. How it went down in quality.

Or at least that's what i believe \o/


Your opinion on a matter doesn't change the fact that the game is in decline, or not. It either is, or it isn't and no one has proof that WoW is in decline other then "My friends quit" or "my low pop server is dead"

There is nothing more to say on the matter, as its speculation and meaningless. This forum has been crapping out these threads since TBC. No one here has a clear indication of WoWs current state other then blizzard.
Another WoW is dying thread, with no evidence to support claims.

Here I'll try: WoW isn't dying.

See arugement countered.

Read it again, it's his own opinion on what state wow is in right now compared to the past. How it went down in quality.

Or at least that's what i believe \o/


It's very nice that it's his own opinion. But then he shouldn't state it as a fact nor insult people that don't agree with his opinion as stated by his very first sentence:

Only a blind fool wearing rose tinted glasses can fail to see that WoW is in a state of disarray right now.
12/04/2011 06:32Posted by Steadyhands
Questing so simple and linear it is downright boring and frankly an insult to anyone over the age of 5.


LOL

The sad thing is that this is actually true... there is absolutely ZERO risk of dying on any quest anymore. I levelled a Disc priest and even a healer can solo every quest, thats just wrong.
Even if 90% of the playerbase left there'd still be enough people to play with.

Also, I like PVE & PVP and Cataclysm. Sorry, can't help it. =(
So Cataclysm is 6 in the play.com bestsellers and Wrath is 10 and the game is dying?

I wish people would stop making these threads to justify their leaving, people grow and change.

People may leave the game but many more are coming back or starting up for the first time.

I think is a conspiracy to try and shut down Warcraft by another company who have just started a MMORPG.

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