Bought winged lion + 4 blizzard store pets for 30k gold

Customer Support
You broke WoW Law.

You got off lightly for your stupidity I'd say.
Greetings Danijal,

I notice that you seem to have been able to speak directly to a member of our in-game team yesterday, so hopefully the representative you spoke to was able to help clarify the situation for you, as well as explaining why this regrettably isn’t something we assist with (in terms of recovery).

My sympathies for the loss of your gold, but please try to use this as a learning experience to make sure that you don’t find yourself so unwittingly scammed again in the future. If you’re at all interested in reading up about our scam policy, and the philosophy behind it, please take a look at our Policy Spotlight on the subject;

Policy Spotlight - Scams
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/900711104

You still can, and should, report the offending player to us, however, as their actions have also been against the game Terms of Use, and we’ll still be able to investigate that side of the incident and ensure that the appropriate action is taken.
Bliz is SO failing it's customers with this policy of theirs.

They set up a world environment where players trade directly for items, and taught the players to trust and respect the integrity of the trade window. But then, this particular trade, which can easily look innocuous to the new or uninformed, has been singled out for leaving scam victims out in the cold.

The caviats of this particular trade are ugly from an internal perspective, but why should something like that have any bearing into the goodwill-based relationship with a real, paying, and innocent customer who was just scammed by an enemy common to both?

That paying customer's feelings and experiences should be more important than the hypothetical concern that abusers will be encouraged if the scams are handled properly afterward (with restitution made to the scammed player). In particular, this applies when players have been trained to take the trade window as sacrosanct, and chat-logged agreements about trades are commonly understood to be binding and enforced.
Bliz is SO failing it's customers with this policy of theirs.

They set up a world environment where players trade directly for items, and taught the players to trust and respect the integrity of the trade window. But then, this particular trade, which can easily look innocuous to the new or uninformed, has been singled out for leaving scam victims out in the cold.

The caviats of this particular trade are ugly from an internal perspective, but why should something like that have any bearing into the goodwill-based relationship with a real, paying, and innocent customer who was just scammed by an enemy common to both?

That paying customer's feelings and experiences should be more important than the hypothetical concern that abusers will be encouraged if the scams are handled properly afterward (with restitution made to the scammed player). In particular, this applies when players have been trained to take the trade window as sacrosanct, and chat-logged agreements about trades are commonly understood to be binding and enforced.


I understand what you are getting at, but you need to realize that the sale of blizzard store mounts for in game gold is simply against the terms of use that we agree to each and every patch. This transaction is (simply put) illegal in the eyes of Blizzard and as such it cannot be supported. This type of transaction funds goldsellers and cannot be allowed.

The only time this transaction affected a "Trade window" is when the player traded his gold. The mount cannot be traded, he/she is given a mount code that they can redeem via the blizzard store and as such, the code is deemed a real world item, not an in game one. So this was not a trade transaction, i.e. Gold on one side of the trade window and mount on the other... click trade... it is totally different.
I am afraid both Psalm and Gontier are correct. These codes offered in trade are most often purchased using stolen card details, so when the fraud is discovered, the payment is revoked and so are your mounts. I am also afraid to say that the GM team will not be able to assist you with recovering your gold as the purchase of these mounts other than via the official channels is against the terms of use and is therefore deemed an unsupported transaction.

Sorry.


If they can remove the items they can return his gold. He is the victim here - saying its against terms is customer unfriendly at best and evil at worst.
31/08/2011 13:58Posted by Bryce
If they can remove the items they can return his gold. He is the victim here - saying its against terms is customer unfriendly at best and evil at worst.

wont happen. their policy is that the items are removed & gold not returned. if blizz returned the gold, then people would buy blizz store items advertised in trade knowing that if blizz find out, the worst that will happen is they will loose the items but regain their gold.
that wouldnt really be much of a lesson learned would it

If they can remove the items they can return his gold. He is the victim here - saying its against terms is customer unfriendly at best and evil at worst.

Heck, if I could buy items from the Blizzard Store and revoke the transaction as soon as I got the items.. And I could keep the items afterwards? Wow, should have thought of that before >__>
It's against the ToS and be glad your account is still your own and also not suspended and move on.
Bliz is SO failing it's customers with this policy of theirs.

They set up a world environment where players trade directly for items, and taught the players to trust and respect the integrity of the trade window. But then, this particular trade, which can easily look innocuous to the new or uninformed, has been singled out for leaving scam victims out in the cold.

The caviats of this particular trade are ugly from an internal perspective, but why should something like that have any bearing into the goodwill-based relationship with a real, paying, and innocent customer who was just scammed by an enemy common to both?

That paying customer's feelings and experiences should be more important than the hypothetical concern that abusers will be encouraged if the scams are handled properly afterward (with restitution made to the scammed player). In particular, this applies when players have been trained to take the trade window as sacrosanct, and chat-logged agreements about trades are commonly understood to be binding and enforced.


Except that these items wasn't traded through the trade window, no?
As I understand it, he got the codes from this guy, and then he simply gave him the gold after he had redeemed the codes.

Not really an in game trade I'd say...
Bliz is SO failing it's customers with this policy of theirs.

They set up a world environment where players trade directly for items, and taught the players to trust and respect the integrity of the trade window. But then, this particular trade, which can easily look innocuous to the new or uninformed, has been singled out for leaving scam victims out in the cold.


I don't think many 'new' players have 30k gold to throw away on pets and mounts. The uninformed will learn a valuable lesson in reading and, hopefully, become a little more informed and a little less gullible when level 1s are trying to sell a variety of items earned by real money for a pretty considerable sum of imaginary gold. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put the dots together.

I'd say blizzards sticky posts and TOS is plenty of warning.
It's amazing to see how many people see the OP as a victim here and accuse Blizz of poor customer service. He did something that was against the rules and got bitten in the !@#. Now Blizzard is supposed to put a bandage on it? Come on, really...

It's not rocket science really. If the item is normally bought with real money then you should not buy it ingame with game gold, cause it's illegal. Also you can expect shady figures to do these kind of deals.

Caveat Emptor!
Bryce:

If they can remove the items they can return his gold. He is the victim here - saying its against terms is customer unfriendly at best and evil at worst.


No, the OP is not the victim. It's customers responsibility to know that it's not a legit trade. Had he ever taken the time to browse these forums, the Blizzard websites or read the terms we all agree too, he would have known it's not going to end well.

The REAL victims in this kind of trade are the innocent people who get their credit card details stolen and used for buying Blizzard Store items, and the ones who get their Battlenet accounts compromised, which then the thieves log in too and advertise and "sell" these Store items ingame.
Of course the op broke the rules, but clearly he was unaware of this or he would not have posed here and contacted a gm. In cases like this a much fairer solution would be to allow the scammed player to keep his items.
I also agree blizz do not do enough to help people understand that this kind of trade is not allowed, simply expecting all the players to read through pages and pages of user agreements after each patch or hundeds of forum posts is just not practical especially when half the players are young children who just want to play the game.

Whilst buying gold for money is pretty straightforwards for most people to see as wrong, when you are trading in game gold for what will end up bieng an in game mount or pet, even if by a code it then becomes much harder for some people to realise that this is wrong and this is where I believe most people will not realise their mistake until it is too late.

Of course I do not have a solution myself but I really do think blizz needs to do more about this particular scam as opposed to their current method of just telling customers 'tough luck'.
bad move
Well, perhaps an extra loading tip might help? You know, like the ones they already have: "Don't stand in the fire" "Click the Lightwell" "Take all things in moderation, even WoW", etc.

This one could be "Don't buy Blizzard Store mounts and/or pets for gold, as this is most likely a scam".
Well, perhaps an extra loading tip might help? You know, like the ones they already have: "Don't stand in the fire" "Click the Lightwell" "Take all things in moderation, even WoW", etc.

This one could be "Don't buy Blizzard Store mounts and/or pets for gold, as this is most likely a scam".

They could put that message in place of the one that still exists about the keyring....
People could also just obey the rules clearly stated every new patch.
31/08/2011 18:34Posted by Dagar
Of course the op broke the rules, but clearly he was unaware of this or he would not have posed here and contacted a gm. In cases like this a much fairer solution would be to allow the scammed player to keep his items.


He clicked accept on the Terms of Use-page. Legistically, he was aware of himself breaking the rules. If he just signed without reading, it's his own damn stupidity and his problem. Rules ain't gonna mean jack !@#$ if you could just say "oh, I didn't know" and get pardoned.
To be honest, too good to be true? mount and + 4 pets from the store for 30k :/
And yeah, already stated by several posts but it's against the ToS
- Buying pets/mounts online, with a stolen credit card = theft and fraud
- Buying stolen goods = fencing

Fencing is, in a criminal court, punished exactly like theft.

OP got off lightly, with a 30K fine.. Should have been a PermaBan..

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