There must always be an antagonist

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16/12/2011 14:25Posted by Purnissa
Well, once the hotheads like Garrosh and Varian are replaced by people with a tad more intelligence, peace could be rebuilt. :P


Problem is the ones with the same level of intelligence as Garrosh and Varian will be QQing on the forums on how Blizzard has destroyed WoW. How could they declare peace!? The planet must ALWAYS be in a state of war for eternity, etc, etc. ad nauseum.

what I've seen, Vol'jin seems rather popular. :P


I believe this is due to the Troll quest-line where Vol'jin essentially stated to Garrosh after an argument "Better watch your back "Warchief". He's got the will and as a leader of a race of the Horde the means. From what I gather the Trolls, Tauren and Undead have been threatened, directly, by Garrosh.

What I would LOVE to see is some political intrigue intra-faction between the Draenei and Alliance and Blood Elves and the Horde. Both powerful members in their own right yet remarkably "outside" of main core decisions and Lore.

MoP could change that substantially if Blizzard allows them to develop as a race rather than left them as an afterthought. Imagine if the Draenei produced a new floating city

There were antagonists in Vanilla, not sure in which Patch order they were introduced but I know there were 2 raids in the beginning (I think it was Onyxia and Molten Core, not 100% sure). Then we got Kel'Thuzad and Naxxramas, the temples of Ahn'Qiraj etc etc. So there were a good few villains to handle back in Vanilla days.


Vanilla didn't have a main antagonist prior to Naxxramas.Yes we knew that we'll face Kel'thuzad eventually but we didn't know if he was the main antagonist.And you are completely clueless,pandaria got thouzands of enemies and first of all Mogu the original inhabitats of the island.The entry raid is Mogu'Shan Palace,we explore the secrtes of Mogu empire.
Pandaria is also attacked by Zandalari trolls,by elemental spirits,the war A v H creating Sha going enraged destroyed everything,by verming,mantid,jinyu,hozu and some crazed civil war.Do you want more aren't they enough?
Blizzard is giving the PVP players that they wanted from day one, you are alliance, so the vilains for you is horde, go and start ganking them all hero.

Can't wait for MoP :)


Fixed it for you - I don't think that PVE players particularly bothered about the other faction - I know I don't
I wish Bruttee had posted that on his main instead of a level 2 shadow because he made a good point. MoP will bring us back to an Alliance versus Horde storyline and I as a player ona Normal realm who favours PVE but dabbles in PVP occasionally am very much looking forward to that. I'm not interested in ganking individual Horde players but I do like the idea of a proper epic war between Alliance and Horde.
Blizzard lack the imagination and creativity to make any good villains.. been so for a very long time now..

They have destroyed Thrall, he's just such a nice orc now, a tamed orc.

Garrosh is decent, it's just weather they do something with him.

new antagonist: it was merely a setback.
They have destroyed Thrall, he's just such a nice orc now, a tamed orc.

Garrosh is decent, it's just weather they do something with him.


Wasn't Thrall like this since wc3?I remember he wanted peace at all costs

EDIT:Garrosh is a warmonger the only thing he cares about is his collection of alliance skull without caring what the costs will be.Entry to Twilight Highlands is the greatese example

Vanilla didn't have a main antagonist prior to Naxxramas.Yes we knew that we'll face Kel'thuzad eventually but we didn't know if he was the main antagonist.And you are completely clueless,pandaria got thouzands of enemies and first of all Mogu the original inhabitats of the island.The entry raid is Mogu'Shan Palace,we explore the secrtes of Mogu empire.
Pandaria is also attacked by Zandalari trolls,by elemental spirits,the war A v H creating Sha going enraged destroyed everything,by verming,mantid,jinyu,hozu and some crazed civil war.Do you want more aren't they enough?


Actually, after checking it up, Ragnaros was the main antagonist once the game was released. "Shadow of the Necropolis" was the patch afterwards and was released in June. Onyxia was the other on release raid, but I don't consider the Lady as the main antagonist prior to Kel'Thuzad.

Yes Pandaria has "thousands of enemy" and so does Azeroth, but I'm talking about a main antagonist, the major opposing force. The Illidan (or Kil'Jaeden if you believe so) to The burning crusade, the Lich king to Wrath of the Lich King, the Deathwing to Cataclysm. I'm talking about the one we're eventually going to face in a showdown, then end of the Hero's journey. It doesn't help to have small schemers running around without the main schemer controlling the plot.

It's the main driving plot I'm missing in the whole expansion, the ultimate showdown if you want to call it that. Every hero's journey has to have an ending and a main plot to follow and that's what I'm interesting to see how Blizzard manages to pull that one off, a thing tried countless of times before without success.
Blizzard lack the imagination and creativity to make any good villains.. been so for a very long time now..

They have destroyed Thrall, he's just such a nice orc now, a tamed orc.

Garrosh is decent, it's just weather they do something with him.
Thrall is not just an orc. He's a real person, a well developed character with higher priorities than just his own faction's interests, not a cardboard cut out like so many of the characters in game. Being that doesn't make him tame. In a gameplay context it is an honor for any player character to fight at his side, Horde or Alliance. :)

Garrosh on the other hand is not decent and has no honor, he is a power hungry hothead and his poeple deserve better. If he had any honor he would have stepped aside when that old crone poisoned his blades and he won the duel with Cairne Bloodhoof under false pretences. But no, he desired the power and he took it with both hands regardless of how it came to him. He is unfit to lead the Horde or his people.
N'zoth or whatever his name is.
He created deathwing. He must be a super massive main boss
@Ancalime

There is a major protagonist in MoP, in a sense. A new one that is of Pandaria and is directly related to the deal that the Last Emperor made with the Gods, not a rehashed character from an earlier expansion. The hints are there but he just hasn't been revealed yet.
Airt, I think you mean antagonist, as we're the protagonist ;)

Blizzard stated that MoP wouldn't have a main villain in the sense of what the previous expansions have had. However I think they would have to rephrase that, as in my opinion, that's pretty impossible. The sense of progressing would be gone, and the heroes would have nothing to do other than run around playing tag with the pandas.
16/12/2011 14:53Posted by Titanflame
EDIT:Garrosh is a warmonger the only thing he cares about is his collection of alliance skull without caring what the costs will be.Entry to Twilight Highlands is the greatese example


That event, alone, should have him assassinated in my opinion. It was a gravest of tactical errors an error on such a magnitude that it would deserve the rest of the Horde rising up against him for that error alone.

The Horde flying fleet decimated by a CHILD's mind. Someone should send him a copy of the Art of War. Considering he's supposed to be a War Chief he is remarkably naive in how to perform in the ballet of War. Wrynn is hardly any better but at least he is kept in line by Jaina, when she is there.
Garrosh is a war monger and has always been that, it was the biggest mistake Thrall did to appoint him as Warchief in the first place. Garrosh is rash and violent and doesn't stop considering his actions before setting them out in motion.

I used to be a Horde player, then I took a Worgen in the Knee.
Good luck with a sense of war on servers with ridiculous faction imbalance or populations so low you can't find anyone.
16/12/2011 14:56Posted by Ancalime
Actually, after checking it up, Ragnaros was the main antagonist once the game was released.

... and I say he wasn't.

He was just one of the two 40-raid bosses available from the release of the game.
If you follow the same logic, the other main atagonists should be faced when they were released (which they were not).
And last time I checked, there can only be one main atagonist in a game (unless there are 2 fighting together against the protagonists or something...).

And MoP was just announced a few months ago. Who says there won't be a main atagonist?
I don't believe Blizzard have said that, only that they will focus more on the war between the Horde and Alliance.
My memory of Vanilla days isn't as good as it used to be, but I remember Ragnaros being "the" opposition to start with. Got my patch history turned upside down however, as Kel'Thuzad was the last patch released.

As for antagonist and its definition, an antagonist is the opponent (per Greek definition) or the obstacle for the main character or characters. Even though there isn't the need of a villain, there at least has to be something that's standing in the way of the heroes. The Tybalt to Romeo and Juliet. It's this obstacle that Blizzard is missing in Mists of Pandaria. It has always been clear what would be the main obstacle in their patches, this time it seems like they're just aiming for camp fires and comba ja songs with the pandas.
Read the material that has been published and watch the relevant videos from Blizzcon. Pay particular attention to the Sha. They are the direct link to what I believe will be the main antagonist in MoP. If I'm right it'll be good - but different.
16/12/2011 13:03Posted by Ancalime
So, no antagonist has shown his face for the next expansion. Illidan, Arthas, Neltharion. Some of the biggest threats to Azeroth has passed. And what now? Pandas?

What about the faction leaders themselves? I like the principal of where they're going with more focus on the actual factions; but I can't help but feel Pandas will serve a bit too much as a distraction - because if they don't, then what's the point of introducing them?
MoP not having an antagonist can also assume that this is blizzard's way of prepin us for something bigger......if i recall corectly from what i've read they said about pandarens that they are the savior's of azeroth because of the fact that they are trying to prepare the Horde and the Alliance for an even bigger threath....dont know wich one.... who knows maybe the Burning Legion are returning since we only defeated 2 commander's.....it's leader is still presumed alive...who knows maybe he'll be next....or the cult of the Sha are the new villans
...a Lich King.

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