Don't buy Queen's Garnet over trade channel!

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A month ago I bought 220 Queen's Garnet for 1000g each. I was a bit suspicious and wrote a GM ticket to ask if there was a dupe around and if it is safe for me to buy these. The GM answered that the gems where probaby stolen, but that I had no possibility to know that and they won't take them away.

I've found a official statement from two weeks ago that confirmed the GM
What I will say is this: we're out to punish those that exploit WoW, not innocent players. Intent and context play a large part in our investigative process, and those that accidentally purchase ill-gotten items shouldn't fear recrimination.
Source: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3225593877#11

For a full month, there were no new gems sold in huge quantities over the trade channel. This led me to belief that there was no dupe around and the huge quantities came just from Gold sellers which were out of gold on the specific server.

On friday I've bought 300 Queen's Garnet over trade chat for 600'000 Gold. I thought it was a good deal, since the usual price on my server is 3000g each.
Anyway, a GM deletet the gems out of my inventory and I got a warning not to do such trades again. I was told that I've got an Email with the details, wich however never arrived.

After talking with three different GM's, they all confirmed that this is the new standard procedure for items, that, I quote, "were originated in illigal activities".
Although the gold I invested was made by playing the auction house, thus not originated in illegal activities, I was not refunded it and it is now lost.

If there was or is a dupe method around, I welcome that every single item that originated in it will be deleted. My gold was, however, not duped and should be around somewhere.

My questions now, and I hope a blue can answer these:
  • Why can't the gold be refunded? It must be somewhere. Why can't you delete the gold there and give it back to me?
  • Why was there no official announcement for this procedure? I've alway traded with best conscience to the rules and suddenly [u]lost 600'000 gold.
  • How can I ensure myselfe that the things I buy over trade/AH are not "originated in illigal activities"

  • Sincerely
    Stonewolf
    Why did you think 300 gems was a legit transaction?
    05/02/2012 18:29Posted by Divinéchaos
    Why did you think 300 gems was a legit transaction?


    Out of the question, he could just buy 10 and the results would probally be the same as when he would of buy 300.
    05/02/2012 18:32Posted by Heallarious
    Why did you think 300 gems was a legit transaction?


    Out of the question, he could just buy 10 and the results would probally be the same as when he would of buy 300.


    I doubt a gm would bother over 10 gems.........
    You gambled and you lost. dealwithit.jpg



    Out of the question, he could just buy 10 and the results would probally be the same as when he would of buy 300.


    I doubt a gm would bother over 10 gems.........


    There is no difference, 10 is just a number.

    The 10 I mentioned are also part of the new rule Blizzard stealthed in

    "were originated in illigal activities".


    So again,no difference if it's 10 or 300, same actions should happen
    05/02/2012 18:29Posted by Divinéchaos
    Why did you think 300 gems was a legit transaction?

    I had a queer feeling with it. But if I hadn't bought them, someone else had.
    In addition, the official forum statements and the things the GM told me made me feel save.

    It was never required for the player to know where the items someone sells are originated.
    I know in real live it is. But in WoW, to my knowledge, you have no way to know if the items are legit and thus it is not going to be punished.


    I doubt a gm would bother over 10 gems.........


    There is no difference, 10 is just a number.

    The 10 I mentioned are also part of the new rule Blizzard stealthed in

    "were originated in illigal activities".


    So again,no difference if it's 10 or 300, same actions should


    He could have used common sense to figuere out that this deal was a bit shady.
    05/02/2012 18:29Posted by Divinéchaos
    Why did you think 300 gems was a legit transaction?

    I had a queer feeling with it. But if I hadn't bought them, someone else had.
    In addition, the official forum statements and the things the GM told me made me feel save.

    It was never required for the player to know where the items someone sells are originated.
    I know in real live it is. But in WoW, to my knowledge, you have no way to know if the items are legit and thus it is not going to be punished.


    05/02/2012 18:35Posted by Brosephine
    You gambled and you lost. dealwithit.jpg

    I don't expect to get my gold back.
    I would like to know why I don't get it back and why there was no official announcement to this important change of the roules.
    05/02/2012 18:29Posted by Divinéchaos
    Why did you think 300 gems was a legit transaction?


    On friday I've bought 300 Queen's Garnet over trade chat for 600'000 Gold. I thought it was a good deal, since the usual price on my server is 3000g each.

    This sentence is the key to that.

    He states he payed 600k for all the gems (even though, with their prices, it would have been 900k).
    He did NOTHING illegal in this case. He bought items he wanted for 2/3 the normal price.
    It is more interesting to know where the seller got it from, as well as why OP didn't get his gold back.

    Blizzard (or the GM) should have a list of what goes on between people's trading, so they SHOULD have given back his gold.

    In both cases, OP is completely innocent and the GM who deleted his gems screwed up.
    05/02/2012 18:39Posted by Sanction
    He could have used common sense to figuere out that this deal was a bit shady.


    Common sense or not, I personally never have heard nor read about this rule. ESP if he gets told it's oke the first time, but the second time the buyer gets punished.
    05/02/2012 18:35Posted by Brosephine
    You gambled and you lost. dealwithit.jpg
    I agree that you should get your gold back and the exploiter punished not you, silly move from Blizz but that's not the first one.

    It's just good business
    You didn't think that mass quantities of epic gems at half(or even less) than their auction value was "too good to be true"?

    Sucks you had to learn the hard way, but yes. They are stolen/duped. The only way to tell if you're being scammed is to use common sense. Are they: level one? jibberish name? speaking in broken english? trying to sell large quantities of expensive stuff at amazing prices?

    You're right that if you didn't buy them someone else will, but that someone else will also be the one who gets tracked down by the gms. Because the GMs can't just let this happen. Yes, the person who sold them to you are the "bad" people. They still won't let you off the hook with millions of gold worth of profit.
    You didn't think that mass quantities of epic gems at half(or even less) than their auction value was "too good to be true"?

    Sucks you had to learn the hard way, but yes. They are stolen/duped. The only way to tell if you're being scammed is to use common sense. Are they: level one? jibberish name? speaking in broken english? trying to sell large quantities of expensive stuff at amazing prices?

    You're right that if you didn't buy them someone else will, but that someone else will also be the one who gets tracked down by the gms. Because the GMs can't just let this happen. Yes, the person who sold them to you are the "bad" people. They still won't let you off the hook with millions of gold worth of profit.



    1) Do some maths (or read an earlier post), 2/3 is bigger than a half.
    2) What if they needed the money badly and wanted to sell them off for cheaps? Just because something is cheaper than normal, and in bulk, doesn't mean the items were obtained illegitimately. I'd be careful that they weren't trying to scam me, but not that they had obtained the items illegitimately.

    I don't think that he should be allowed to keep the gems of they were obtained by hacking or anything that's against the Terms of Service/EULA/whatever. I do think he should be refunded, in full.

    Edit - the point I'm making is, whilst in real-life situations often a deal that is "too good to be true" will leave you with a loss. However, GMs have the power to play god in this situation. They have the power to take away the money and the gems, and give him the money back. So why shouldn't they? No sense in penalising innocent people completely unnecessarily.


    You gambled and you lost. dealwithit.jpg

    I don't expect to get my gold back.
    I would like to know why I don't get it back and why there was no official announcement to this important change of the roules.

    You won't get it because you bought from someone who had duplicated or stolen the goods, and you knew or should have known it. There's not be an an official announcement because it's always been like that, Blizzard has always punished people who exploit the economy or takes advantage of others doing it. Either you misunderstood the GM who talked to you or what he said was simply wrong.

    Now, I'm not moralizing. There's a risk and a potential reward for everything, and I too would have accepted a good deal if I deemed the potential reward high relative to the risk. So I'm just saying, when you gamble you sometimes lose. This deal was way too risky from the start, and I would never have accepted it knowing Blizzard's stance on this issue. Way too high risk of getting caught and/or punished.
    05/02/2012 18:42Posted by Skoddraei
    He did NOTHING illegal in this case. He bought items he wanted for 2/3 the normal price.

    Usually people get punished for buying stolen items too, whatever that is in real life or in game. (Punished in the sense of getting their 'stolen goods' confiscated without being guaranteed a refund.)

    Sure it may be difficult to conclude whatever the 'items' are stolen or not, when attempting to make a good deal. Which is why I assume 'this rule' isn't as strict in WoW as it often is in real life.
    But honestly. 220x epic gems? Isn't it obvious this player may have gotten those through illegal activities ...?

    05/02/2012 19:32Posted by Ancile
    2) What if they needed the money badly and wanted to sell them off for cheaps?

    Of course this is always an option. But honestly, how often does someone need 600k gold in a sudden rush ...?
    Ohh please.

    You knew those 220 gems you bought the first time were duped, it's wasn't even possible to have to many red gems on a server since DS was only released a few weeks before-hand

    You knew what you were doing, you knew you were buying duped items and you paid the consequences

    Deal with it.
    So the GM told you that the 220 gems were fake/stolen, and then you went out and got 300? I mean, really? Why are you complaining on the forums, it is completely your own fault. You absolutely knew what the result was going to be.

    Also... why the hell would anyone want to buy 500 of the same gem?
    A month ago I bought 220 Queen's Garnet for 1000g each. I was a bit suspicious and wrote a GM ticket to ask if there was a dupe around and if it is safe for me to buy these. The GM answered that the gems where probaby stolen, but that I had no possibility to know that and they won't take them away.

    I've found a official statement from two weeks ago that confirmed the GM
    What I will say is this: we're out to punish those that exploit WoW, not innocent players. Intent and context play a large part in our investigative process, and those that accidentally purchase ill-gotten items shouldn't fear recrimination.
    Source: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3225593877#11

    For a full month, there were no new gems sold in huge quantities over the trade channel. This led me to belief that there was no dupe around and the huge quantities came just from Gold sellers which were out of gold on the specific server.

    On friday I've bought 300 Queen's Garnet over trade chat for 600'000 Gold. I thought it was a good deal, since the usual price on my server is 3000g each.
    Anyway, a GM deletet the gems out of my inventory and I got a warning not to do such trades again. I was told that I've got an Email with the details, wich however never arrived.

    After talking with three different GM's, they all confirmed that this is the new standard procedure for items, that, I quote, "were originated in illigal activities".
    Although the gold I invested was made by playing the auction house, thus not originated in illegal activities, I was not refunded it and it is now lost.

    If there was or is a dupe method around, I welcome that every single item that originated in it will be deleted. My gold was, however, not duped and should be around somewhere.

    My questions now, and I hope a blue can answer these:
  • Why can't the gold be refunded? It must be somewhere. Why can't you delete the gold there and give it back to me?
  • Why was there no official announcement for this procedure? I've alway traded with best conscience to the rules and suddenly [u]lost 600'000 gold.
  • How can I ensure myselfe that the things I buy over trade/AH are not "originated in illigal activities"
  • Sincerely
    Stonewolf


    In my opinion if this what you say its true, then this what gm did is ret****d...
    But well, they dont care, they dont think, they just follow points from list to decide what to do. 300k? Phew, gm's does not care you lost ur legit gold, why would they? They do not have on their list "return the gold to the buyer" near "take all illegimate items he accidently bought". Eh... I fell your pain and do not understand GM's actions same as you do in this case.

    Hope ur issue will get solved,
    cheers,
    Bakuga

    PS. I do not agree with dealwithit.jpg. You should get your gold back. It's Blizzard fault they couldnt find the gems in one person in the number of 300 before he sold them to you. It's their system failure, not urs. They do not use many of the systems they should have implemented a years ago, and now for their slacking they decided to punish you. Hey blizzard, is it really so hard to monitor ah + players eq on their logouts? Ofc it is, it's better to punish legit players, cuz they cant do nothing against your inert.

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