Death Knights and souls?

Story
hang on death knights do not need to be raised in order to become a death knight, I am fairly certain baron rivendare (sp?) and Arthas never actually died technically they just transformed into undead as their powers increased.

so we know that death knights are empowered by their rune weapons, so is it possible that like Arthas all their souls are in their respective weapons?

if so then it would make sence why living transform into undead after a while, their weapon drains their sould and seals it, so this might be why death knights are able to act and make differant decisions from let us say the forsakern? as they were meant to be top level scourge that had to think independantly

wait does soul = conciousness
and ghouls being mindless = no soul?

not sure


That's impossible because Death Knights just pick up a random sword from the weapon racks and create a runeblade from it.

Arthas may have died during his time in Northrend, right before he became a death knight. As for Rivendare, we don't know (because there's no lore about him), all we know is that he was "corrupted by the plague".

As for player Death Knights, considering the fact that their intro cinematic says "this is the hour of your dark rebirth", I'm quite sure they all died and were raised.
Yeah soul is conciousness however necromancy can replace the soul with dark magic making it have very very basic commands such as go fight over there or go guard that place. The valkyr can bring back the soul once it has left the body, allowing them to raise more rotten corpses - something necromancers can not do - only valkyr and the lich king I believe.
hang on death knights do not need to be raised in order to become a death knight, I am fairly certain baron rivendare (sp?) and Arthas never actually died technically they just transformed into undead as their powers increased.

so we know that death knights are empowered by their rune weapons, so is it possible that like Arthas all their souls are in their respective weapons?

if so then it would make sence why living transform into undead after a while, their weapon drains their sould and seals it, so this might be why death knights are able to act and make differant decisions from let us say the forsakern? as they were meant to be top level scourge that had to think independantly

wait does soul = conciousness
and ghouls being mindless = no soul?

not sure


That's impossible because Death Knights just pick up a random sword from the weapon racks and create a runeblade from it.

Arthas may have died during his time in Northrend, right before he became a death knight. As for Rivendare, we don't know (because there's no lore about him), all we know is that he was "corrupted by the plague".

As for player Death Knights, considering the fact that their intro cinematic says "this is the hour of your dark rebirth", I'm quite sure they all died and were raised.


well I think you are right about the death knights of Archerus, i tend to think of them as generation 3 death knights.

as for Arthas we know he did not die as a blue stated he never really died and became an undead when he wielded frostmourne, as for that baron the only info om him I can find is that he worked for the lich king as he wanted power and became a death knight he could of been raised but I am pretty sure being killed is not a requirement, just an option

I was under the impressio that it was not the weapon but the runes that are important, in game death knights use their attacks based on the rune system and cannot draw upon their powers until they are refreshed, this could be considered game mechanics though.

But considering we have seen some death knights act with positive emotions it does seem like they have their souls (or maybe close by in their runes)

I really think we need to ask this in the next cdev as I looked at wowpedia and could not find a straight answer
Question is; when does Frostmourne take a soul? Death knights don't have to be personally slain by the Lich King. In fact, it's more often not so.

Watch the Wrathgate cinematic. When the Lich King kills Saurfang the soul visibly goes into Frostmourne. Go to the Halls of Reflection. All the ghosts you see there are souls captured in Frostmourne. That means capturing someone's soul doesn't mean you become a death knight. Unless ofcourse you get ressurected again as one, like Saurfang.

When you get ressurected does that return your soul to you if you were slain by Frostmourne? I don't think so, but if you weren't slain by Frostmourne I think your soul has never left your body, because dieing doesn't automatically cause your soul to be removed from your body. You need a spell for it. Hence why warlocks need to use 'Drain Soul' to gain a soul shard. Or you use a weapon that was made to absorb souls, like Frostmourne or the legendary weapon from ICC.

So, what my conclusion is, is that any death knight who didn't have their soul removed in such a way has always kept its soul.
Question is; when does Frostmourne take a soul? Death knights don't have to be personally slain by the Lich King. In fact, it's more often not so.

Watch the Wrathgate cinematic. When the Lich King kills Saurfang the soul visibly goes into Frostmourne. Go to the Halls of Reflection. All the ghosts you see there are souls captured in Frostmourne. That means capturing someone's soul doesn't mean you become a death knight. Unless ofcourse you get ressurected again as one, like Saurfang.

When you get ressurected does that return your soul to you if you were slain by Frostmourne? I don't think so, but if you weren't slain by Frostmourne I think your soul has never left your body, because dieing doesn't automatically cause your soul to be removed from your body. You need a spell for it. Hence why warlocks need to use 'Drain Soul' to gain a soul shard. Or you use a weapon that was made to absorb souls, like Frostmourne or the legendary weapon from ICC.

So, what my conclusion is, is that any death knight who didn't have their soul removed in such a way has always kept its soul.


And my conclusion is, Warlocks drain souls from living enemies. When you die, your soul is gone. Why do you think they need to store their souls in a Soul Stone?

So yes even if Frostmourne did not take their soul, their soul was removed from their body upon death.
08/02/2012 15:47Posted by Xylander
And my conclusion is, Warlocks drain souls from living enemies. When you die, your soul is gone. Why do you think they need to store their souls in a Soul Stone?


Without a warlock there's nothing going to drain a soul. Is it going to fly away by itself or going to stay put? Well, I don't know. So I guess we can both be right.

No need to be rude. As I said before, Arthas soul was inside Frostmourne, but it never lost its conection to his body.


Never heard them say that, but okay. I suppose you have an extended version of the game where all this was revealed.


08/02/2012 07:33Posted by Saldor
It claimed his soul yes, but Frostmourne was connected to him, he could still feel his soul sort of.

Saldor explained it much better than I could.
Yes and I still stand by my point that I never heard of that. But whatever.
The souls of the undead (Forsaken, PC death knights, ghouls, etc.) are imperfectly attached to their bodies; the dark magic that sustains them is a buffer that prevents their souls from properly joining with their bodies. This is why undead feel only faint sensations of pain or discomfort from most physical stimuli, and why the Light is so painful to their existence. The primary exception to this rule are liches, as liches bind their souls to a phylactery and then use the phylactery to generate a physical form; this process is why lich bodies look nothing like their mortal bodies, and also why you have to destroy a lich’s phylactery to truly kill them.
Holy mother of God, a blue post in the Story forums? I think I'm still asleep.
*Reads blue post*

Seems legit. Nice to know, and also find out what your purpose is here Ny
Yay, I was right xD


P.S This is also the first time I've ever seen a Blue post on the Story forum.

Opinion? It's extremely helpful!
A.. a blue? Here? Concerning lore?

*Rushes to the window. Rushes back*

I knew it, the apocalypse is here people!


On a serious note, awesome with some legit feedback. It resolves some of the more 'deep' points in lore that otherwise leave us all guessing.
09/02/2012 22:02Posted by Nyorloth
The souls of the undead (Forsaken, PC death knights, ghouls, etc.) are imperfectly attached to their bodies; the dark magic that sustains them is a buffer that prevents their souls from properly joining with their bodies. This is why undead feel only faint sensations of pain or discomfort from most physical stimuli, and why the Light is so painful to their existence. The primary exception to this rule are liches, as liches bind their souls to a phylactery and then use the phylactery to generate a physical form; this process is why lich bodies look nothing like their mortal bodies, and also why you have to destroy a lich’s phylactery to truly kill them.

Thanks for the explanation! So, if someone breaks all my bones I can simply produce a small 'Ouch!'? Good to know :)

Thanks for the explanation! So, if someone breaks all my bones I can simply produce a small 'Ouch!'? Good to know :)


You'd notice it, but you probably wouldn't feel anything at all :P

Undead are infamous for relentlessly marching onwards and don't collapse until they've been absolutely destroyed.


Cut off their legs and they'll still crawl towards you, sometimes without as much as winching xD
10/02/2012 01:00Posted by Malizïa
You'd notice it, but you probably wouldn't feel anything at all :P

Ah, so not even an 'Ouch'? No wonder Garrosh planned to use forsaken as 'boneballs' in Sylvanas' short story.
09/02/2012 22:02Posted by Nyorloth
The souls of the undead (Forsaken, PC death knights, ghouls, etc.) are imperfectly attached to their bodies; the dark magic that sustains them is a buffer that prevents their souls from properly joining with their bodies. This is why undead feel only faint sensations of pain or discomfort from most physical stimuli, and why the Light is so painful to their existence. The primary exception to this rule are liches, as liches bind their souls to a phylactery and then use the phylactery to generate a physical form; this process is why lich bodies look nothing like their mortal bodies, and also why you have to destroy a lich’s phylactery to truly kill them.


my god!

I actually said we needed a blue poster but I didn't...

God my hair is untidy, oh god I am half dressed! so embarrassing..
*urgently groom myself*

okay thanks so much for the responce you made my day, if at all possible, how does having their sould imperfectly attached effect their moral/ logical decisions and general behaviour?

because death knights seem to act almost uniformly differant than the forsakern, they are pretty brutal to their enemies and apparently can go into a blood thirsty hysteria but apparently are watching the forsakern wearily (as stated by a blue poster)

so where along the lines did things go differant for them as death knights of Archerus do not trust Sylvannas, instead of joining her as fellow free willed undead
@Redemptioner

Their stance as undead is different because the Lich King willed it so. They were supposed to be tools of war, a weapon of the Scourge, and it would not fit were they not programmed to be merciless, remorseless, unstoppable killing machines with a natural thirst for blood and violence.

These traits, and their backstory and betrayal, summed up to them forming an individual faction that devoted itself to aiding the Argent Crusade in it's march for Northrend and Icecrown, in an effort to both redeem them self to Tirion and the Argent Dawn, as well as find a purpose for their undead life and their addiction for violence. Many Death Knights however, especially after the demise of the Lich King, still cling to their former racemembers and factions for employment and consolation.
So Undead Death Knights are what exactly then?
10/02/2012 05:22Posted by Dukia
So Undead Death Knights are what exactly then?


Presumably, Forsaken who have been killed and raised AGAIN, this time as a Death Knight.

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