Feral Rotation Difficulties

Druid
Hi folks,

I levelled two feral druids to 85 (two different realms on Cata).

I have since got Maxdru feral/guardian up to 90 and currently 4/8 in MV.
I use Askmrrobot, Icyveins, Noxxic, Wowhead as my sources for gear and rotations.

Whilst I'm not particularily well geared at present (in my opionion) - my DPS is what I would consider significantly lower than I expected. I have read PTR Blue Posts about our damage being increased... but thats 5.1 - not now!

I think the reliance on our bleed DoT and Savage Roar is too much of a penalty - even with SR glyphed.

My current rotation should be something like: SR (12 sec), FF, Rake, Mangle x4, SR (42 sec), Rake, Mangle x4, Rip [rince and repeat] using Bite <20% add HP.

This would be in an ideal world if there wasn't such a thing an energy!

My rotation is more like: SR (12 sec), FF, Rake, Mangle x2 -PAUSE- Mangle ... Tigers Fury!.. Mangle, SR (42 sec), Rake -PAUSE- Mangle -PAUSE- Mangle -PAUSE- Mangle -PAUSE-

I could continue but I think you get the idea! I'm sat haplassly mashing buttons (my poor keyboard) begging for yet another mangle before one of my two critical abilities doesn't run out and I'll need 5 combo points to get any useful return on it.

Worse still is multiple targets... attempting to do that rotation on constantly changing targets such as the Stone Guard is almost laughable.

I thought Feral was supposed to be an ferocious agile kitty - we can run fast but we can't hit fast? Compared to my other 90... a Shaman who can spit out a blast, fireball and a hilarious quanitity of chain lightning before kitty's even done a Rip!

-----
1) Could it be worth reducing the required combo points to three with a pool of five - similar to Paladin? I'm unsure how difficult that would be to balance!

and/or

2) Halve the damage and halve the energy cost per move.
----

Even if the kitty was balanced to do exactly the same DPS as current - at least it would FEEL like we were doing more than just sat there autoattacking.

Obviously the above are just pie in the sky ideas - but as mentioned having levelled two ferals (in cat form). I now resort to doing my dailies in Guardian due to survivability and ease of rotation.
You could try going crit over mastery until you get better gear. Quest generally have lowish hp so you aren't getting the full effect of mastery anyway.
I agree with Rev, more crit makes the rotation a lot more simplistic as most moves will generate 2 CP and those which use them will instead return energy from Soul of the Forest.

Curious however as to why you are using mangle over shred? Shred with a bleed active on the target will do more damage per energy over all. If your attacking from behind in most cases (Which you should be when possible, to avoid parry) using shred instead of mangle should not cause you any troubles.

Furthermore I noticed you use tigers fury at quite an odd time, tigers fury is best used when below 35 energy so as not to waste any energy. It would also be best to use Tigers Fury when you are on 4 combo points, using it at this point allows one to rake (to 5 combo points) and then rip. This way both dots will be applied with the 15% extra damage from Tigers fury and will keep this damage until the DoTs expire.

Irrelevant to making the rotation any easier, that in my view is crit / haste related however doing the above if you do not already will bump your damage quite a lot.

~Leigh
I would do SR, faerie fire, rake, mangle or shred to five combo points, rip, sr, mangle or sjred to five combo points, then do SR for full duration. Sling in a tiger's fury somewhere in there, and don't let rake fall off. Then next five combopoints rip, then next time SR. and so on.
I don't know how PvE'ers do it, but I think you should use shred instead of mangle?
no?
Not sure if this is a gear issue but I find I can get a 5 point rip before my 12 sec glyphed SR has dropped off.

So my opener is: SR (from stealth 12 sec), Shred/Pounc/Ravage opener, FFF, rake, shred, rip. (and extra Shred before Rip if I've been unlucky with crits). Don't be wary to throw in your TF as soon as you're dipping low on energy. Just remember to make sure you get the FULL energy regen from TF. After your 5 point rip, reapply SR 9if it's dropped off) and reapply rake, then build up for a 5 point SR cos your Shred will refresh Rip for a lil' bit.
As mentioned previously, not sure why you're mangling instead of shredding - shred is going to get far ahead compared to mangle if you can use it of course (if not, you should glyph it and still have it on the opener during TF+zerk). Anyway, I usually open fights as follows:


  • Pull timer starts
  • Precast HT on myself, shift to cat form
  • 3 seconds into timer, potion
  • 1 second savage roar
  • PULL! Wild Charge/dash in, Faerie Fire
  • Rake Shred Shred TF+Berserk (+shred) till 5CP
  • NS+HT rip rake
  • Keep Shredding
  • Savage Roar
  • Keep Shredding
  • Overwrite your bleeds if you have superior trinkets procs and/or DoC (best if you can track your bleed ratio with an addon)
  • Go to town
Thank you for all your comments...

@ALL
*You are all correct - I do use Shred if I'm behind the target but sometimes mechanics (Ultraxion anyone?) don't allow this :( This isn't exclusive to us though with Rogues being in the same boat.
*I have Wild Charge tier1 talent to leap behind the enemy as thats VERY useful. Shame they nerfed a ravage after this as that was awesome in Cata! :(
*I do include HT after PS - I have WeakAuras when this procs

@Rev I had tried a crit priority in the past. Maybe a crit/haste balance over mastery?

@Leigh I almost always use TF when it's off cd. At Rake/Mangle/Mangle that's 105 energy so even with regen you'd be <10. I never really paid much attention to the extra damage it gives. I will try that.

@Nioniel I've tried that in the past and you can't get two full rotations within 12 sec. According to IcyVeins SR has a higher priority over Rip. I did do Rip first but I can't really see much different between either of them - I guess getting the DoTs up would probably be a better idea.

@Koroshiya Thanks I will absorb the rotation and try to adjust mine.

@Alpheus Awesome :) Thanks thats a fab list for me to check out. Lets hope with a little more gear I'll be #1 on DPS!

I will keep you all posted!
Ma xD
Mangle only to keep debuff on enemies and if shred not possible otherwise shred is the main combo generating skill.
13/11/2012 09:49Posted by Efstratia
Mangle only to keep debuff on enemies and if shred not possible otherwise shred is the main combo generating skill.


Thankfully they removed the Mangle debuff!
doesn't it still has slow effect? i'm slow on updates
13/11/2012 09:58Posted by Efstratia
doesn't it still has slow effect? i'm slow on updates


The tanks will keep it up, he shouldn't concern himself with such detail if his dps is low.


@Rev I had tried a crit priority in the past. Maybe a crit/haste balance over mastery?


Not sure for stat weights for your content/gear level, but if you're struggling, get yourself hit/exp capped to avoid hickups in your rotation then dump whatever is left into mastery (I doubt you'll get more than 400-700 at this point). Use a site like wowreforge.com to optimize reforge usage. Going for haste is probably a dps loss in perfect conditions, but you would have to sim it based on your rotation to be certain. In any case, I'd advice you to get your rotation straight and then optimize at that point instead of optimizing reforges for a sub-par rotation (since stat weights will be different based on your activity on the mob and bleed uptime).


@Leigh I almost always use TF when it's off cd. At Rake/Mangle/Mangle that's 105 energy so even with regen you'd be <10. I never really paid much attention to the extra damage it gives. I will try that.


You should pay attention to the extra damage it gives, with DoC + a trinket (or dancing steel) the primary purpose of TF should be to sync it with a DoC'd rip/rake; second to sync it with Berserk and only third to use it when you are low on energy (to catch up CPs, swipe spam, on the pull etc.)


@Nioniel I've tried that in the past and you can't get two full rotations within 12 sec. According to IcyVeins SR has a higher priority over Rip. I did do Rip first but I can't really see much different between either of them - I guess getting the DoTs up would probably be a better idea.


If you pop TF+zerk during these 12sec you will be able to. Just make sure you have a TF+berserk macro ready so you don't waste too much time.


@Koroshiya Thanks I will absorb the rotation and try to adjust mine.


Koroshiya is using Nature's Vigil I believe (so doesn't have NS management added to his rotation) and is using savage roars inefficiently. Unless you're doing 5mans where you need to stun/target swap a lot I'd stray away from his suggestion (he meant well though).
Thanks again Alpheus :)

I'll note that the gear I have on at the moment is my guardian gear!
I use AskMrRobot for gear/reforge assistance.

I'll check my hit/exp caps are on target - based on my gear I ease hit/exp caps down to HC dungeons (or +2 on AMR) otherwise you just end up reforging everything into hit and nothing else!

You mentioned DoC talent. I read a recent article about that and incorporating it into feral rotation to give quite a decent boost to DPS. I currently use HoW but really only for the 6% buff.

Oh and just to let you know I'm gonna steal your weapon :p
Glad to help. If you aren't already, I suggest you start logging for WorldOfLogs so we can fine-tune some of your rotation further. If you cba remember to write the combat log, install LoggerHead
Thanks again Alpheus :)

I'll note that the gear I have on at the moment is my guardian gear!
I use AskMrRobot for gear/reforge assistance.

I'll check my hit/exp caps are on target - based on my gear I ease hit/exp caps down to HC dungeons (or +2 on AMR) otherwise you just end up reforging everything into hit and nothing else!

You mentioned DoC talent. I read a recent article about that and incorporating it into feral rotation to give quite a decent boost to DPS. I currently use HoW but really only for the 6% buff.

Oh and just to let you know I'm gonna steal your weapon :p


I found Ask Mr. Robot to be too much of a smartass to be reliable (crit soft caps, having to go through 3 configuration windows to get my exp/hit caps adjusted), having to load the page, load my character and then RELOAD my character... it's just a time consuming tool giving no real added value above wowreforge
13/11/2012 12:35Posted by Alpheus
Glad to help. If you aren't already, I suggest you start logging for WorldOfLogs so we can fine-tune some of your rotation further. If you cba remember to write the combat log, install LoggerHead


I'll look into WoL/Logger and I should be in MV on Wednesday - hopefully as DPS!
You should get off that rip before SR12seconds wears off. If you got tiger's fury, which you should at the start of a fight. Try it again.

DoC rotation is somewhat tricky. But if you get used to it and have good keybinds, you'll get into it eventually. The good thing about it, for questing purposes, is you don't have to stop to heal up between fights. I find the trickiest part to get it perfect. But I'm getting there. I think. I hope.

Reason why I want rip up fast, is cause I prio mastery. Haste I completely overlook. Crit is nice to have for faster combopoint generation. I suppose this will all change with 5.1, but dunno how much. I think the change will be good. Less dependency on bleeds to be up at all times would be a good thing imo.
13/11/2012 13:41Posted by Nioniel
Reason why I want rip up fast, is cause I prio mastery. Haste I completely overlook. Crit is nice to have for faster combopoint generation. I suppose this will all change with 5.1, but dunno how much. I think the change will be good. Less dependency on bleeds to be up at all times would be a good thing imo.


Yeah as per OP I get frustrated with so many conditions i.e. position, multiple DoTs and keep ups, as well as our wonderful combo point rotation!
Yet, say RDPS shaman can stand anywhere as long as they are in range and mash three buttons - hey presto!

Sigh! I really do love my kitty but they take one thing away to make our rotation easier (mangle bleed) only to add something new!
I just thought I would post a brief update with some more pleasing results.

I have my full kitty gear on and have reforged it into hit/exp/mastery reaching much closer to the caps. I believe it's actually just over 7% on both when in cat form.

Shock! I didn't even HAVE Berserk on my bars! Oops! I have created a simple castsequence macro for TF+zerk so a single press for TF, and double-press for Zerk. I have also retalented into DoC which will take some getting used to but is generally friggin AWESOME!

With only my MOTW and +200 Mastery food on the 90 dummies I was hitting over 40K.
On the Raid dummies it was a little lower with more glancing hits around 35K.

But with regards to my frustrations (above) of large delays - my kitty seems much more responsive.

Raiding in MV tonight so fingers crossed I'll be a happy kitty (possibly bear).

Thanks for everyones comments xD
12/11/2012 15:58Posted by Maxdru
2) Halve the damage and halve the energy cost per move.

No, I would personally hate that.
One of the differences between energy classes (rogues/druids) and other classes is that they have those pauses that you dislike so much.

Actually energy is not the only reason I pause. If I have 5 combo points, 4 seconds remaining on Rip, and I have enough energy for Shred, I would wait till Rip has less than 2 seconds then reapply rip. Of course I wouldn't wait if omen of clarity is up or I am at risk of reaching 100 energy.

This play style of Ferals. They are less spamming than other melee classes where you have a button to push on every GCD. I personally prefer that play style and I think it's a good thing that the game offers several different play styles. At least your druid feels different from other classes.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum