Eternal flame vs. Sacred shield

For some raids I find the shield better than eternal flame. Fully buffed my shield is absorbing 38k damage every 4.4 seconds. It costs nothing and is a nice put up and forget spell absorbing the equivalent damage that a holy light would generally heal every 4 and a half seconds.

In a lot of fights i'm almost never using word of glory i'm saving holy power for light of dawn so eternal flame seems a bit of a waste to me if Im not using it. So i take the shield for a bit of tank protection and use my holy power on aoe instead of single target healing.

Depends on the fight and I change constantly if I feel one is going to be a bit better.
For protection it's pretty obvious which to take. SS scales with AP. It gives a 20 to 25k shield with 0 vengeance, so guess what it does with 100k vengeance.

Right now, selfless healer(for the guy using it) requires 3 judgements. This may be possible in low level dungeons, but for a 90 healing the first few heroic raids thats just not worth it for 1 flash heal. EF in that perspective is much better because of the hot that refreshes mastery.
23/01/2013 10:12Posted by Bram
Why do all guides suggest Sacred Shield?

As for PvE Retribution paladin it is pretty simple. The guides usually expect you to raid.

Spending HoPos is loss of DPS output, so big no for Eternal Flame.

And no paladin is going to FoL himself in raid anyway, so Selfless Healer is useless.

Sacred Shield is only priority queue filler for a bit "self protection" if all your cooldowns are down at moment. The only thing you risk with it is a wasted Art of War proc and get a bit healing which actually can save your butt.

Edit: Do not forget that Sacred Shield scales with Spellpower (+117%). At 30k AP you have about 15k SP and that means 21k shield every 6 seconds.

I've been thanked several times by my past healers for throwing off an instant flash of light healing like crazy because of Selfless Healer. Works pretty well on Garalon :>
How big were those FoL of you effectively? Would not ordinary WoG or emergency LoH be better option?
I use SS for my prot because I'd rather spend my HP on SotR. I can also keep SS for 100% of the time (ie, recast every 30s). The absorbs from SS at the end of a raid boss fight are usually pretty high.
Let's assume;
1.Your tank is not a protection paladin,
2.There is no Holy paladin other than you in the raid,
3.You do not or choose not to heal the tank(You are on rest of the raid duty)

SS cost nothing and scales well with haste.From 6 procs you absorb between 50k to 200k dmg maybe even higher with only one gcd spent on tank every 30 secs without wasting holy power.
That is a deal you should take.

If you are raiding 25p and your raid have 2-3 holy paladins or any of the assumptions above is wrong eternal flame is the only hot you can have , very easy choice tbh.

Elaborate please. If we take into account the chance that there are multiple Holy paladins in the raid, then that doesn't makes SS worse. (You can have 3 SS from 3 paladin on a single person.) Still not worth IMO. Except on specific fights, where absorbs are better. ( Gara'jal maybe? ) Or if you would spam [Light of Dawn] for some reason.

Sorry for my late reply. The strong absorb part overwrites the weak hence there is no point using 3 SSs on a player. With vengeance stacking the SS of a protection paladin will always be stronger than yours as a healer.

@ Kazime;
EF beacon healing is outstanding. When there is always raid dmg as in garalon for example blanketing the raid with EF returns substantial heals to the tank. But it costs a lot of HoPo usage against SS which is basically free. The problem is,we can not really compare an absorb to an actual heal. From EF beacon healing you may overheal but a 6 sec absorb is definitely absorb a boss swing in the time its up so its almost 100% effective.
28/01/2013 11:24Posted by Bram
How big were those FoL of you effectively? Would not ordinary WoG or emergency LoH be better option?
I also use Selfless Healer as ret in PvE. I can crit (and most times does cause there are some crazy Crit+ buffs in raids :P) for over 200k with each FoL with 3x SH stacks. And there are bad gaps in rets rotation unless u use holy prism (not recommended) during which u can easily throw instant FoLs that can be a life saver, And a mana saver for healers. (I use mouseover macro for my SHx3 FoLs for gap fillers)

For ret PvE sacred shields absord doesn't do much, most likely that 7k absord doesn't make a difference whether you die or not. Where as well timed 150k+ instantnomanacost heal is quite great.

I wouldn't use those FoLs on myself, unless it's an emergency, in which if pref LoH or Health Stone. But if must it's usable on self too.

As for the quote from Bran; Ordinary WoG is a DPS loss, so simply Instantnomanacost FoL heals ALOT more, and isn't a DPS loss if used in rotation gaps. LoH is a big CD and holy paladins who know more of what's happening in the healing section know, in most cases, when better to use LoH on a tank. Often when I LoH a tank in raids I hear in Mumble those "Ahhah... some1 paniced..." or "Ty for forbearance now stacks can't be reset with HoP", but of course those can be avoided with simply putting more attention to the healing section of fight. But I myself just stare at those DPS meters and if happen to notice a tanks low health when admiring the colour of my lovely health bar in raid UI, it's instant FoL or LoH.

Eternal Flame is also always a DPS loss, so for PvE ret I strongly recommend using Selfless healer.
Selfless healer - Heals like crazy, isn't a DPS loss if timed right, can be a life saver.
Eternal flame - Always a DPS loss, Heals OK but not as much as Selfless Healer FoL, and easily results in Overhealing.
Sacred Shield - Great but needs refreshing, not too effective, might save healers a slight amount of mana.

PvE rets go Selfless Healer, your healers will love you.

Sorry for my late reply. The strong absorb part overwrites the weak hence there is no point using 3 SSs on a player. With vengeance stacking the SS of a protection paladin will always be stronger than yours as a healer.

It won't. You can have multiple SS on a single player, they won't overwrite each-other.
to OP: I see you are prot now so I assume you are talking about prot talents. I will just quote since I would be paraphrasing anyway.

First of all, using Eternal Flame as a HoT sacrifices ~5k DPS for ~27k HPS, though there's also a huge opportunity cost: a whopping 12% drop in SotR uptime (and note that's absolute percent; it's a ~25% reduction in SotR damage mitigation). Sacred Shield, on the other hand, incurs no DPS or SotR uptime loss for 17k Absorption Per Second. If you recall from the rotation sim, the EF HoT is worth about 7k HPS, so that means if our WoG usage was equivalent to the EF usage required to keep up the HoT, we'd have over 37k HPS in the SS configuration.

In summary, SS is just hands-down better than EF. We'll see if the buff in 5.2 is enough to make it interesting.
I use Eternal Flame because i use it on multiple people at once, and use Beacon of Light, and use it to heal fast in a group.
Posted by Hitto

Dunno but you should use selfless healer

Posted by Stotch:

I'm holy so I guess not.

Thats why you should use it as holy, use judgement 3 times to increase the healing, reduce mana cost and cast time by 100% of your next flash of light you cast on another target. :)

Judgment is a waste of a GCD and by the time you get it 3 times it's better to have just used holy light 3 times and not waste the mana or GCD
imo sacred shield should be some sort of passive, scaled down tad. selfless healer is better imo if you're ret, sacred shield as prot and eternal flame if holy
Depends. If you're a tank just go with Sacred Shield, it beats the other two with a stick, puts them in a trunk and dumps'em on a landfill. If you tank with any of the other two you're just doing it wrong.

As Holy you'll probably go with Eternal Flame 99% of the time, though Selfless Healer might be viable in certain situations.

As Ret you'll want to take Sefless Healer most of the time, specially if you intended to do group PvP in whatever form. Eternal Flame might be useful when solo but I don't really like wasting the Holy Power for it.
A lot of people here don't seem to get that SS scales with spell power, which scales with attack power, which scales with vengeance.

After the first 10 seconds of the fight your SS absorbs are ticking for 70,000-90,000 per 6 seconds. It was extraordinary. Shame to loose it.
This thread, arghhh, it burns my eyes!
It's an older thread and people seems to talk about different specs in every post :p
As for Holy Pals just go with EF! its OP in 5.4.

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