Rose tinted glasses

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Why does blizzard and everyone on the forums seem to think anyone who enjoyed vanilla or tbc is nostalgic and wearing rose tinted glasses. Have you ever considered that some people may have genuinely enjoyed vanilla? They may have liked the game design because of the reasons you use to claim it was a horrible game eg having to gather a group for a dungeon. Why does blizzard and most people on these forums feel the need to dismiss any love of vanilla as nostalgia. Some people geniunly liked the game
People tend to say vanilla and tbc were all sunshine and rainbows with unicorns running through fields of roses, so i can understand some of the hate these threads get.

Tbc was fun for me because that's when i started, it was new and exciting for me and that's about it.
I did enjoy meeting people and grouping with the but the pain of looking for a group was unbearable and there were rude and abusive people back then too, at no point did i see anyone being blacklisted for their behavior.

I feel the same about school, when i was there it was ok but not the best but now i miss it. Being able to live without the need of a job or paying bills was good.
I generally enjoyed classic and TBC a lot, however you can't stay stuck in your nostalgic ways. I enjoy MoP a lot too but for whole different reasons. While a lot of things are so much easier nowadays I just can't imagine rolling back to TBC, nowadays there's so many more things to do.. apart from the game looking better and having better quests you can hunt achievements, do battle pets (and collect pets now, in classic your pet was an on-use item and not really a good idea to collect too many of them or else your bags would fill up), solo old content, transmog gear (this is such a strong point for me, because I do not like any of the MoP gear.. but because of transmog I don't mind.. I make my own set!), etc etc.

I really preferred the old talent system over the new one, and there's a ton of things I prefer from TBC times (and classic with world pvp). But times change and so does this game, I really feel MoP is the better WoW then any previous expansion (though each had its strong points!).

People bashing others for being nostalgic? Yea that's stupid, everyone has their own opinion and I don't mind if one person enjoys Cata more, while the other might enjoy classic more. However do understand that if people make topics on "make classic servers pls!", that these things just won't happen and have suggested many-many times before. And blizzard have explained it many times before why they won't do that, so if you make topics like that your bound to receive bashing from other players.
i was there in vanilla, i really enjoyed it. would i go back to how it was then? hell no.
i was there in vanilla, i really enjoyed it. would i go back to how it was then? hell no.
i was there in vanilla, i really enjoyed it. would i go back to how it was then? hell no.


Would I change everything back to how it was in Vanilla? No. Do I think some elements of the game were better back then? Yes.

In reply to the op, there seems to be a distinct section of these forums that have a compulsion to reply with 'rose tinted glasses' whenever an older version of the game is mentioned. If you look at their profiles you'll often see that they are newer players. I can only assume they feel the need to say such things because they must reassure themselves that they definitely haven't missed out on anything.

Whenever a thread mentions Vanilla there will always be a few posts from people who weren't there telling me how bad it was. I'm not going to claim that the game back then was perfect and I'm happy to discuss its pros and cons. I'm not trying to make people feel bad for having missed the opportunity to play. However, I really wish they would please stop trying to convince me that a game millions of people enjoyed was awful and that we only played it because there was no alternative.
I really wish they would please stop trying to convince me that a game millions of people enjoyed was awful and that we only played it because there was no alternative.
thank you
27/08/2013 11:39Posted by Manowar
Why does blizzard and everyone on the forums seem to think anyone who enjoyed vanilla or tbc is nostalgic and wearing rose tinted glasses.


Because most of the threads that pop up about how wonderful Vanilla/TBC were seem to conveniently forget any of the bad things that were present in the game at those times. Using grouping up as an example, people who shout about the virtues of the older game talk about how wonderful it was to group up with people from your realm, and how it helped form lasting friendships. Yes, it did, I won't deny that. However, they seem to forget that forming that group could take ages. You could be stood in SW spamming trade for a long time until you got your tank. They also forget that if the tank left or DCd, say, then someone had to go back to a city and spam trade again until they found another one. And so on.

I'd have absolutely no problem with I love Vanilla threads if the author was able to discuss both the pros and cons, as Kallisto mentioned. But sadly, many of the threads on this subject are so biased, it could lead a new player to believe that Vanilla was the absolute peak of gaming, with no flaws and everything running absolutely perfectly. It is this bias that leads people to roll out the nostalgia/rose tinted glasses posts.
It's an invalid point alltogether. If players think back to Vanilla/TBC with such fond memories then isn't that all that matters?

I enjoyed Vanilla and TBC a lot more than the grindfest we call WoW nowadays, does that mean *anything rose-tinted whatever*? No, of course not, it simply means that for me, the game was more enjoyable back then. I will gladly admit there's many technical/gameplay issues that made this game better that were not in Vanilla, think of the Dungeon Journal, think of Achievements and the way Guilds work and countless of things I can't think of on the spot, but all that means is that millions enjoyed this game to death WITHOUT those features. Imagine if this game weren't a grindfest, imagine if the current tier wouldn't become completely irrelevant when the next tier arrives, imagine if PvP wasn't destroyed by every class having a billion CCs. This game could be a fantastic game again but the thing keeping it back right now are the Devs, they no longer wish to make this game the best game it could possibly be (in Vanilla and TBC, in spite of all its flaws, they did want that. It was a huge success), all they're doing is the least they can get away with. Why did transmog take so long? It's so they could put it as a major feature on one of their patches, even though it changes virtually nothing gameplay-wise. Why do we not have tri-spec yet? It's because they're saving it for when they can put it on one of their little patch posters as a major selling point, even though it's nothing hard to implement and there's no moral debate about whether it'd be good for the game or not (they burned that bridge with LFR anyway). What about character models? What about dead servers, an issue they've tried to ignore to deah for literally 4+ years...

Anyway, I understand it's easy for Devs, CMs, GMs and ignorant players to use the 'rose-tinted' argument to death in a futile attempt to invalidate all the people that know this game is getting worse and worse, but all it does is prove they really have no argument to explain why hundreds of thousands of players found Vanilla and/or TBC to be a better game than what the Queue&AFK free-epic-and-legendary-for-all approach has done to the game we play today.
Some stuff was better, some stuff was worse.
27/08/2013 11:39Posted by Manowar
Have you ever considered that some people may have genuinely enjoyed vanilla?


I have no doubt that there are people out there who remember Vanilla World of Warcraft for how it really was, who can list all Vanilla gameplay systems and features in exact detail, and who still prefer the game as it was back then despite all the progress and additions that have happened since. These people would certainly enjoy playing the Vanilla game if they could, and I can understand if it is frustrating for these people to be placed into the same group as those people who actually are nostalgic.

The thing is though, that there are a lot more people who are nostalgic than people who are not. Those people who are nostalgic have some great memories of fun times they had back when the game was new and when they were playing with their first characters in their first guilds. But often these people are treasuring their good memories, while at the same time forgetting (or downplaying) the not so great things from back then. If they could play Vanilla today, they would most likely not find the same level of fun they had back when they were new to the game, and they would most likely be annoyed by the lack of many of the quality-of-life improvements that have been added to the game since then.

Whether or not people are nostalgic is certainly something that there are a lot of different opinions on, and we fully acknowledge and appreciate that. That being said however (and I know this may come across as being harsh or dismissing to some), the developers have the final word in the end. Their preference currently is to keep the game moving forward, and this means that their philosophy is to keep evolving and expanding the World of Warcraft universe - supporting old versions of the game does not fit well with that philosophy.
At the end of the day it kinda goes like this -

If you were there, and you had fun, and you have some good memory's of times long past, then who cares what other people think, who really cares if Blizzard are now seeking to erase the past in an effort to now justify the present.

I know one thing, and one thing only, I would rather have rose tinted goggles, goggles that have been finely crafted (but not perfect by any means, nothing in life is perfect) by game designers who really cared about game design, game devs who understood the journey, the journey that might never be completed, and all the fun that is contained within.

I would rather have that,

than a pair of cheap and tacky plastic Blizzard brainwash goggles, whose purpose is only to,...lighten my wallet, while offering me nothing of any real substance.

Life is so full of choices, you can either wear some nice quality Ray Bans, or just go buy some tacky plastic junk from Asda.
"I played vanilla", people wear it as a badge of honour, even I do sometimes. It was a game I really enjoyed playing but the game currently is the same game but not the same game.

There are so many things that are different now to what they were, I won't start listing them as there are so many threads and websites that list them, but what I will say is that the feeling you got when you first started playing is probably what people miss the most and causes the fond memories. The confusion, the wonder, the oh crap situations and the many other things.

I for one would like to see a Classic realm, not so I can try to relive that "new game" feeling but to see if my memories are right and have a go at levelling the way it used to be.
27/08/2013 12:11Posted by Toklo
i was there in vanilla, i really enjoyed it. would i go back to how it was then? hell no.


/\

way to much grinding, everything was a time sync, far to much standing about for hours on end LF groups
Cause of the community, s'all.. if you look at it, people now are "RUSH" "FAST" "I ONLY HAVE 1 MIN TO PLAY AND I NEED IT TO BE DONE FAAAAST!"

Thats why horde tend to rush in AV all the time, and why they tend to lose 80% of the time.

Noone has any patience to do anything, they believe they need to do the stuff really fast and get over with it, or else they will miss out on "fun" in the game. Not to forget that they do a bit of what they are rushing for and get bored anyways.
The game back then sucked for todays standards. However back then it was the most epic gaming experience ever. I'd never go back to vanilla or tbc days if it were today though. But people tend to enjoy and have fun when something is new and fresh like a completely strange fantasy world full of thing to discover and meet new people from all over the continent.
I personally enjoyed Vanilla WoW, and BC. I would say these were the times I found WoW most exciting. I actually enjoyed getting my aquatic form on my druid, getting killed several times on the way through wetlands on the way to find the second half of the item, or indeed the first half where I was murdered by murlocs! Apart from memories like this though, I believe the main reason I loved it so much was that is WAS all new to me. I believe wow is MUCH better now, but I will never again have that awe and wonder as I had back then. There is nothing Blizzard can do to make the game new again. However many improvements they make, it will never be new again (like like I will never be 21 again lol). This is not to say that anyone really preferring vanilla is looking through rose tinted glasses (although many are).
Have you ever considered that some people may have genuinely enjoyed vanilla?


I have no doubt that there are people out there who remember Vanilla World of Warcraft for how it really was, who can list all Vanilla gameplay systems and features in exact detail, and who still prefer the game as it was back then despite all the progress and additions that have happened since. These people would certainly enjoy playing the Vanilla game if they could, and I can understand if it is frustrating for these people to be placed into the same group as those people who actually are nostalgic.

The thing is though, that there are a lot more people who are nostalgic than people who are not. Those people who are nostalgic have some great memories of fun times they had back when the game was new and when they were playing with their first characters in their first guilds. But often these people are treasuring their good memories, while at the same time forgetting (or downplaying) the not so great things from back then. If they could play Vanilla today, they would most likely not find the same level of fun they had back when they were new to the game, and they would most likely be annoyed by the lack of many of the quality-of-life improvements that have been added to the game since then.

Whether or not people are nostalgic is certainly something that there are a lot of different opinions on, and we fully acknowledge and appreciate that. That being said however (and I know this may come across as being harsh or dismissing to some), the developers have the final word in the end. Their preference currently is to keep the game moving forward, and this means that their philosophy is to keep evolving and expanding the World of Warcraft universe - supporting old versions of the game does not fit well with that philosophy.


Its not about wanting the game to stay as it is and never evolve...
I liked the vanilla and tbc more, but why?

The reason is clear, the fact that i had to travel to dungeon or to gather a grp for a dungeon and then travel to it felt like a big world.
There are a few big things that changed the game to worse, one of them is making players more lazy... present day in my guild when i say it was great back in the day when we actually had to travel, then someone i know (a friend) in the guild says he doesnt wanna waste time traveling... kids these days!

Imagine if skyrim had the same additions as WoW (even tho its not an mmo), but think about it... a dungeon tool for skyrim? lol. You never need to actually leave windhelm, just choose a dungeon in the tool and do it... then get teleported back.
Normally you have to discover the dungeon first before you can do it, teleport to it. But that wouldnt work in WoW because in an mmo you do the dungeons multiple times.

The reason why traveling to the dungeon is better, and has always been better, than dungeon tool = you get better memories, you gain more friends, you have more fun because people arent stupid enough to just leave only to have to travel back there again or to wait for a grp to form.

You see, in the current WoW theres a good way to see this.
Ive gained more friends when ive had to travel to the dungeon and do it, because i find players who are good and who think im good and we play well together and so we become friends... just like in a raid guild, i got plenty of friends from each raid guilds ive been in. But now i havent raided for like 2 years so my friends list hasnt grown pretty much at all.

Ive only done LFR and 5 mans out of neccesity and mostly people dont even talk in them, and many people are from different realms so making friends is useless when theres so many limitations in battle.net friendslist.

Now that connected realms come it would be easier to actually have to gather people for a dungeon instead of using a dungeon tool. But obviously nobody wants to do that because its slower and even if they do it they STILL use the tool to teleport to the dungeon.

It should give more rewards if people didnt use dungeon tool. :P
Like 50% more valor and justice, and extra cosmetic rewards for doing something that hasnt been done for years.

Challenge Modes was kind of well made idea but not good enough in practice, its not as popular as it could be because you only get cosmetics from it so there are so many people who dont care.

I do want the game to evolve, and so it has done...which is awesome, but the problem is that some of the changes have also made players too lazy. Dungeon tool, battleground queue system...
I do sincerely believe that it is, more often than not, a case of nostalgia. Yeah, I do agree that there are those who genuinly prefer the old WoW, and I recall back a year ago having had long arguments with someone like that on the forums here, only to be later proven wrong. I appreciate that I was wrong.

I often wish I could go back to the TBC days. That's when I started the game, and many of the elements left off by Vanilla prevailed when TBC released. Not only that, but I was aware of the current state of Vanilla before TBC released, but was unable to play the game due to other reasons. It seemed like such an amazing game that delivered a rich MMO experience, and ultimately popularized the MMO genre. I was also a big fan of Warcraft III, so naturally, I kept a close eye on WoW awaiting the day I could finally start playing.

I can say that I do sometimes wish I could just turn back the clock and relive those fun memories. Speak to the people I first met, and rejoin the first guild I ever joined (Ancient Dream on Hellfire EU). That was so much fun, and there were so many giggles and oh man, level 40 raids to crossroads. I could pretty much go on and on about which memories I'd love to relive.

But at the same time, my way of having fun in the game today differs from what it was back then. Back then, I had fun by simply levelling and doing dungeons with friends, and maybe the odd organized low-level world PVP. Today, I am a raider. I want to play a game that has a rich set of diverse end-game content for me to experience with other people, ranging from easy to challenging bosses. None can argue that today's heroic mode bosses are no pushover compared to the bosses of WoW from the old days.

If WoW were today what it was back in TBC and Vanilla, I probably wouldn't be playing it. But at the same time, perhaps it is because I evolved with the game. Over time, Blizzard made raiding more complex. That caught my attention, and as a result, caused me to want to experience that content. This shifted my goals for fun in this game to a different direction.

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